Dear baby haysoos Morpheus, is there anything you can't argue about and pick apart? Who cares about the detail of how many really go back, you can look past that and get to the heart of why some that leave have lives that look like a dumpster fire and struggle. Those people exist, regardless of the number, and it is an interesting discussion, unless of course you want to derail it because of some perfectionistic need to ensure that all details are 100% factual in order to discuss a topic. Geez man, don't be a thread-shitter.
Why do so many that leave wind up coming back?!
I believe it is because of the fact that they do not build up a support system outside of the organization. If you refuse to establish relationships with non-Witnesses prior to leaving you will have no one to socialize with. The loneliness gets to them. Sure the go back, but never to uber-Dub levels. They just do the bare minimum to gain their social support system back.
Prior to my escape from the organization I was near 100% reliant on non-Witnesses for my social support group. Losing the support of my parents was all that I really lost. I have a huge non-Witness family in my profession who are there for me 24/7. 7 billion people living on this planet and 7 million are Witnesses. Why limit yourself?
Actually dub the wording is very relevant, as is the premise. If indeed “so many” have their lives end up as dumpster fires the the org is right. Leaving is to invite disaster. I would think you and many others on this board would object to that premise on its surface alone.... or maybe not. Perhaps your life has been a dumpster fire since you left and you wish to warn people not to leave. I feel differently ;)
If the wording is relevant, then you'll find that the OP said the word "I" to begin his post, never intimating that he had statistics worldwide, and saying that this was what he has seen. So yeah, it may seem like "so many" to him. You see, "so many" leaves it vague and shows that it is indeed to the OP's perception. For some, one or two might be "so many" because they can't believe that even one person would come out to freedom just to destroy life and go back. Somehow everyone else managed to grasp the premise and to discuss it rather than picking at words used like we did as JWs.
My life is actually great Morpheus. Thanks for asking.
nowwhat2 - "I have seen so many that have left, and their life turned into a dumpster fire."
Personally, I suspect that at least some of those folks' lives were already kind of on the way towards dumpster-firey.
Leaving just lit the match.
Maybe they just can't seem to function outside a high-control group environment.
Somehow everyone else managed to grasp the premise and to discuss it rather than picking at words used like we did as JWs.
😂😂😂 Oh my... unable to discuss a concept without an attempt at a petty insult... dub, if you cant examine a question and try to see the underlying concept then your conversations are likely superficial. Thats fine, if your happy im happy for you.
Its worth, however, taking a min to look deeper at a question sometimes. Or not. I dont actually care what you do... Of course your even mistaken on the very premise: many who leave dont fair badly. A few nowhwat knows did. A few we all know did. I addressed that too, but perhaps your too interested in sparing with me to have gotten that far... its fine. I enjoy a little verbal sparing, but honestly we fight in two different weight classes.
As always dub.... hope you have a good one ;)
Dear morph' trust me, I have personally seen dozens including family. Why must every thread get side tracked because of guys like you?! Sheesh!
I think there were 3 things with my experience that led to a more happier out come than those who leave for more "WORDLY" reasons.
(1) My age: I was nearly forty when I physically walked out the door. During that time my life patterns had been firmly established. I suppose one good thing that come out of the jws was their stance on alcohol, drugs and sex. To this day I'm still apposed to drugs, drink little, and don't have reckless sexual practices. I was a lot older when I left so had more life experiences. I sort of feel sorry for these teenagers who want to leave, as quite often with few life skills and no family support they can be vulnerable to been taken advantage of. Older and wiser I say.
(2) My reasons: I left purely because of TTATT. I was an active publisher practically right up until I left. I think those who leave purly for these reasons are less likely to return, and will do better in the out side world.
(3) Timing: from learning TTATT to physically walking out the door was about 18 months. I had plenty of time to reflect on this and get my strategy and life in order. Because I had been educated on the do and don't of leaving, I have never been DFed. I can still keep family relationships open.
I could see myself going back.
I can't help but think there are a fair amount of JW's there that go along for the ride.
I have no intention of going back.
In my situation, my wife and I have very little social life. At my age, and perhaps partly due to my rural location, there aren't many social opportunities for a married man to form friendships with others that my wife refuses to be a part of.
If I went back to the Kingdom Hall and played up the repentence, I'd have an instant, fairly large group of "friends". Sure, to a degree they are conditional, but aren't all friendships conditional on some level? I had very good friends that I enjoyed activities with that included my wife.
No, my life is not a 'dumpster fire', I have no intentions of going back, especially since I still have a young child, but I can understand the draw.
I think many flit in and out for a while before jumping not sure how many return permanently. I think the WT does everything possible to prevent you getting a sense of real "world" life. Its all very much like the film 'the village" .
In terms of why when people leave they would appear to hit the skids I think its 2 main things- firstly you only tend to hear of the bad cases not the ones who just go on to lead normal lives as there's nothing interesting about those. But secondly something not yet raised I think I'd that JWs are brought up with at best skewed more likely no internal moral compass. Absolutely every decision is arrived at and evaluated via JW glasses. Even the most basic societal things- death of a loved one for example _ reaction is are they a JW if not well God would have destroyed them anyway, this just isn't normal. Every decision whether its clothing, sex, entertainment is led by what the organization finds acceptable. A person never learns by their mistakes or their successes in fact learning through life is something to be discouraged and feared.
Put this together with a warped perception of what worldly people do, drink smoke take drugs and shag as many people as possible its a recipe for failure, then when it all goes wrong it just goes to show the WT was right and God is punishing your sin rather than accepting consequences for actions just as we all have to.