HELP!!! HELP!!!! HELP!!!!!!

by proudassmonkey 56 Replies latest jw friends

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    Melissa sometimes freedom carries a high price. But you aren't the one deciding what the price will be. Neither are your parents in fact. Thw WTS does that for them. No amount of discussion will "make them see it"

    If they are convinced the WTS is God's channel they will refuse to examine anything you give them.

    Wait. Go make a life for yourself. Be proud of who you are. Be the YOU that you were meant to be - whatever that is. Be your best.

    Sometimes I think it must habe been like that for the women on the Titanic who had to leave their husbands behind on the ship. The price was huge but they got on those little lifeboats and sailed into the unknown.

    If they were good parents their love is still there. It might be buried under all the WT teachings but it is still there.

    Hang on. Hope. And live your life

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    Hi Proudassmonkey, welcome to the board! (DARN -- just missed you in the chat room !!)

    Can I call you PAM?

    Anyhow, my sister and I are both shunned by our parents, just because we were raised in "da troof", got baptized, and now have been rejected by their organization on some flimsy grounds (long stories).

    They live 1,500 miles away now, so I don't even get the chance to see them much. But they've been in town to visit their JW "friends" while ignoring their own children here in the same town.

    They too claim it's because of "the course I have chosen".

    Your dad's letter is wrong on so many levels. The Bible doesn't say don't eat with someone who rejects the teachings, it says don't eat with someone who BRINGS NEW teachings. Oh well, that's too subtle a difference for someone who mindlessly obeys Brooklyn like your father and mine.

    And in the letter he flat-out admits they can't think for themselves, that basically they are robots following orders from Brooklyn headquarters. And also his letter makes the common JW mistake of confusing "Jehovah" with the organization, as in "you left Jehovah". Whatever.

    I just got married in June, but didn't tell my parents until weeks later. My wife will bear a child early next year, and do you think my parents deserve to know?

    It's hard to "cut off" association with one's own parents. But really in your case and mine, the choice has already been made. It creates a hole in your heart for awhile (at least it did for me), but I've learned to surround myself with family and friends who give love without conditions like "be in our religion or else we'll hate you". And yes our parents HATE us. (The JW"s say HATE can mean LOVE LESS in the Bible sense, so there you go...) Watchtower teachings teach parents to hate their own children. How selfish is the Watchtower, keeping our parents away from us so that they can have slave labor for use in promoting their own guesswork and false prophecy (otherwise known as the Watchtower magazine)?

    It's hard to let go. Sometimes JW's do come to see the reality of their hopeless religion, others will keep on believing in a die-hard way "until the end or until we die, whichever comes first".

    This board is a good place to come because you're not alone.

  • mustang
    mustang

    I reply with great sadness.

    After 25 YEARS of my father calling every two weeks to browbeat me and drag me kicking and screaming back to the KH, I have realized that the HARD-CORE ZEALOT variety of JW's cannot be cured or reversed. I had pIONEERED and had been an "MS equivalent". (The MS position and titles didn’t exist when I was on the "corporate track".)

    I believe that this is especially true of the older ones.

    I finally led my siblings in a revolt: we all had to quit talking to him. This includes the sister who is still following the JW "party line". We basically had to "reverse DF" him.

    BTW, he does things his own way and is the terror of the local KH’s.

    Which brings me to something I hope doesn’t occur to you: he has STALKED me for over 20 years. His "Course Of Conduct" (genuine Legal terms from CA Penal Codes, not JW-speak) has just become legally actionable in my state ~4 years ago and ~1 year ago in his state.

    Your father sounds more rational than mine; still, the only thing that I can suggest is to use the WT and other publications against them. Make them see the confused mess that WTS spouts.

    There was already one such quote here on this thread. Find others and send them to them. Just the fact that it changes every few years is enough for some to see the falsehoods involved with other JW matters.

    Best wishes,

    Mustang

  • proudassmonkey
    proudassmonkey

    first and foremost i want to start off saying thank you for the support. it really does mean alot to me. i was trying to go to sleep but i am churned up right now.... that is a very good suggestion to use their own publications against them. i'll have to look into it.
    how do i say forget this to my parents and walk away?
    well.. i guess i just need to try harder.


    no you may not call me pam (yelch) mel, melissa, or melly works for me though. :)

  • kgfreeperson
    kgfreeperson

    You both want to be accepted for who you really are, that's what makes it so hard. I agree absolutely with Lady Lee. There is nothing you can say that will change their minds about the Borg--only they or the Borg itself can do that. If you can manage to let them see that you don't want to hurt them and that you accept their choices perhaps, in turn, they can respect yours. But please don't think of it in terms of who is winning or losing. That's a point of view that can't be helpful. Good luck!

  • PeaEye
    PeaEye

    Is it really so that they chose their pathetic religion over you? Harden your heart against your parents and against Jehovah's witnesses and against Jehovah himself for that matter! Know it all jerks. They always think they're right no matter what we show them. They've made mistakes so don't let 'em forget it. And they don't even have the decency to admit it. You've got the right to do whatever you want. So satisfy yourself. Forget about your stupid family. If they cared about you, they'd give up their beliefs. Idoits in the congregation. Nobody ever cares about anyone else. They're all mindless robots, especially the older ones. Find some other friends. They'll probably support you when times get tough. Even forget that. You can do it all yourself. You're a rock, an island. You don't need anyone. Any and all religion is for the suckers. A good job and a good education are the most important things in life. Sure, you'll die in the end, we all do. But they'll probably die first and that should bring some relief. Meantime, there's so many good movies and TV programs and hobbies to engage in and truly intelligent people to talk to and good food to eat and beverages to drink. Don't worry about putting on weight. No one has the right to judge you. Satisfy yourself. Make them feel guilty. Play head games with 'em. Make 'em suffer! Taste the fruit. It's so good. Take a lover. Explore your sexual side. Or don't. You decide. Ever try expanding your mind through chemistry? That can be fun. And if money gets short, there's no end to the guys who'll "help you out" for a small favor. There's so many things to do and explore away from the "holier than thou" witnesses. Immerse yourself in whatever suits your fancy or feels good. It's all about you. Want to volunteer to help someone? Will that make you feel better? Then do it. Do whatever YOU want to do. If you get to feeling down, come to this site. I learned everything I've written right here! Nothing like cyberspace to make a person feel loved. Above all, never give in. Good and bad? You decide.

    L. Cypher

  • Flip
    Flip

    oem

  • hornetsnest
    hornetsnest

    Hi, PAM (Grin)

    That indeed is a rough one. I know, as I've been there for some 18 years now. There is a way to handle it that helps considerably, although it is probable that your parents won't change. It involves how you view the situation yourself, as well as refusing to look or feel as though you are guilty.

    I don't know you or the state of your faith right now, so I will have to use my own situation to illustrate what I mean. For instance, when they say something like "You have turned away from Jehovah", instead of defending myself, I'll return, "Why would you slander me that way? My faith has changed and grown, even as additional study and prayer should cause it to."

    Another example: "You have lost your faith!" I return, "Well, if I have, you are part of the reason." They will want to know why, whereupon I come back with "Because you refuse to follow the Bible's admonition at Proverbs 18:13." Their refusal to examine the reasons I feel as I do is condemned in that scripture.

    In other words, refuse to accept the guilt trip and put it right back on them where it belongs. You don't have to be nasty to do it, but have some points thought out so that you are comfortable with them and they come easily.

    To that end, here is a link to something I wrote a couple of years ago. It's recipient was a very high ranking elder, and he had no answer for these things. It is lengthy, but perhaps that is good, as there is much to be pondered here. Some or even most may not apply to your situation, but you are welcome to use anything that does.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/16556/1.ashx

    Be steadfast and calm in this course, and even if they don't talk to you, they will still respect you, for you give them no choice.

    Keep your chin up, kid.

    LoneWolf

  • StinkyPantz
    StinkyPantz

    PAM-

    Do we have the same parents?

  • greven
    greven

    Some notes on how I would reply. I assume you still believe in God and the bible in this reply as you noted that you do not want to be seen as too apostate.

    Dear Melissa,

    You are the first to say you can’t be a hypocrite to your self. Neither can we. Please take the time to read this letter. You know very well that your mother and I love you dearly. We haven’t be able to give you all that you’ve requested of us, but when it was very important we’ve at least tried to help you. We want to tell you that it’s a hard thing to remind you of how as Jehovah’s servants we follow the scriptural admonition to not be eating with one who has turned their back on the teachings we get from the bible.

    Dear mom&dad...I love you too and I am glad the feeling is still mutual (or something like that). First of all: where is such a biblical admonition to be found? Secondly: why do you assume I have turned my back on the teachings of the bible? I still believe in the bible, jehovah and Jesus. The only thing I do not agree with in certain things is the fallible interpretation of the bible by a human organisation. This is quite distinct. Jesus disagreed with the traditions and interpretations of the pharisees, not the laws of moses and scriptures on which they were build.

    There is no doubt in our minds of how we need to be. Though there is great sorrow in our hearts with the path you chose. We feel out of all our children (except for Sara) you are the most kind hearted one of the family and you show the most feeling and compassion than all of us, and that is one of the things we love about you.
    So you say I am a kind person and your daughter you love. How is it then that you would eat with worldly people from work and other friends but not me? Just because of a difference in opinion about the interpretation of some the bible? Why am I treated worse?

    This last conversation and disrespectful response was a direct challenge for us to choose between obedience to what the scriptures teach us or not , and we have got to listen. Yes you are right that it may not be right in your eyes, or in the eyes of people who are not Jehovah’s witnesses who may think it is wrong. Your mother and I can’t just choose what we want to believe and what we don’t what to believe. We can’t just take the beliefs and choose from column A and then some from B. You know what we believe. That’s not how we do things, we need to accept all that is written.
    We need to accept all that is written. Yes indeed, all that is written in the bible! Not all that is written by fallible humans! The bible teaches us to make sure of all things, to investigate of these things are true like the bereans did. How can you do such if you are not willing to listen to my arguments?

    We know you have gone through many hard things in your life, that is not a question. All five of you where given the same direction, only two of you accepted the course to not follow Jehovah. That is your decision. We are not going to change as we have limitations that we need to keep to. We are not forcing you to change your mind, we can do nothing to make you see things differently.

    You can by proving me wrong. And this is your biblical obligation too (add several texts and wt quotes)

    The times you’ve called were, in my mind, because you needed to talk to us as your parents. There have been times you called your mother and may have talked longer because you are so dear to us, but I hope you didn’t think we were ignoring our stand with Jehovah. If that’s the case then we are sorry if we sent you mixed messages.

    Would jehovah change his stand with you is you supported your daughter? I thought that was a requirement, taking care of ones family. (text text)

    I’m sorry this choice had to be put directly in front of us like this and choice is a hard one but again we need to be true to ourselves and to our God, Jehovah. We would love nothing more than to be a united family again. It breaks our heart to have come to this point. We are still here for you whenever you need us, but we can’t go out to dinner with you! Only you can change that now.

    I have an obligation to God and the his word. I have no obligation to a human org. When I feel this organisation goes against God and his word and I can prove it, I would sin if I supported that organisation and keept quit about it. Is it wrong to warn you about it?

    Here are some quotes that might come in handy:

    1 Thes 5:21, 2 Cor 13:5,

    *** w50 8/15 263 Name and Purpose of The Watchtower ***

    The

    Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic. It invites careful and critical examination of its contents in the light of the Scriptures.

    *** w69 3/15 166 Why It Is Wise to Examine Your Religion ***

    Jesus reproved those persons who claimed to serve God but who relied heavily on the traditions of men in preference to God’s Word. He applied to them God’s own words from Isaiah 29:13, saying: "It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines." (Matt. 15:9) Since we do not want our worship to be in vain, it is important for each one of us to examine his religion. We need to examine, not only what we personally believe, but also what is taught by any religious organization with which we may be associated. Are its teachings in full harmony with God’s Word, or are they based on the traditions of men? If we are lovers of the truth, there is nothing to fear from such an examination.

    *** w59 5/15 305 Is It Wrong to Change Religions? ***


    If a person’s worship is wrong, his eternal welfare is in jeopardy. But how is he to know whether his worship is right or wrong? That is determined by whether it is in harmony with God’s written Word. He cannot take someone’s word for it. He must go to the Bible himself and study what it says. Just because the religious leaders in his religion as well as his parents and others say it is the true form of worship, that does not make it so.

    *** w55 5/1 259 Will You Reason on Religion? ***


    Is it showing hatred to disagree with someone’s religious doctrines? Far from it! An intelligent discussion can be greatly beneficial. Sometimes even a degree of controversy may be a good thing, stirring us to investigation. Too few people really have investigated their religion. How did you choose your religion? Did you merely accept the one your parents had, or did you examine the facts for yourself? Is yours an inherited religion, or a believed one? There can be a great difference between the two.

    *** w55 6/1 337 Putting of Your Faithfulness to Proof ***


    JEHOVAH is the source of true faith. Faith based on accurate knowledge is a strong chain that binds man to God. Yet, as with any chain, it is only as strong as its weakest link. Therefore it is good to examine our faith, to test it, to see if it can hold up under stress or if it needs to be reinforced. Our faith in Jehovah God is built upon a solid foundation, the inspired record of the Bible. True faith is far different from mere credulity or blind superstition. Faith does not mean believing in something just because others do. Faith is not governed by emotion or sentiments, nor is it held for selfish, personal reasons. Faith has as its groundwork logic, facts, reason and truth.

    *** w55 5/1 259 Will You Reason on Religion? ***


    But how can you tell whether a religion is right? By investigating and reasoning upon what it teaches in the light of the one firm guide on religion, the book that tells us what true religion was before it was divided into so many different denominational ways. That book, the Bible, is your guidebook, your road map, your book of instructions as far as religion is concerned. But how familiar are you with the Bible? Can you prove what you believe from its pages? It is important that you be able to do so.

    *** w55 5/1 259-60 Will You Reason on Religion? ***


    It is true that some religious leaders have endeavored to make the Bible mysterious and to imply that only a theological student can understand it. But their theory is not true. Every Christian should be able to use the Bible and should be ready to defend his belief with it, because his belief is of value only if it conforms to this book that Jehovah God mercifully and lovingly provided for our benefit. The One who inspired the Bible stated the principle: "Come now, and let us reason together." (Isa. 1:18) Sound reasoning involves systematic thinking and accurate facts. It requires that we be informed upon God’s Word. The scripture tells us to be "always ready to make a defense before everyone that demands of you a reason for the hope in you, but doing so together with a mild temper and deep respect." Speaking out the truth is of vital importance. Could you imagine Jesus’ apostles saying: "I never discuss religion," or the zealous, enthusiastic first-century Christians being unable to support their beliefs from the Scriptures? Why, early Christians were so on fire with their message that they were accused of turning "the world upside down"! Do you have such conviction for your faith? If not, what did early Christianity have that your religion has not provided you? Understanding? Zeal? Christian maturity?—1 Pet. 3:15, NW; Acts 17:6. John said: "Produce fruits that befit repentance." (Luke 3:8, 9, NW) Is the man producing fruit who will not even speak up for his faith? Who cannot defend it with Scriptural proof? Can he help others if he merely says: "My faith is right," but cannot show why?

    *** w66 3/1 132 Should Falsehood and Corruption Be Exposed? *** People feel that it may not be the best policy to deceive and be untruthful, but to make known deception and uncover falsehood is regarded as being even worse. To do so often opens one to greater censure than is received by the person who commits the wrong. Jesus never hesitated to speak the truth, even though he was killed at the instigation of the angered religious leaders for doing so. Therefore, how will you respond when pointed statements are made about false religious teachings and corrupt practices? Will you immediately condemn the person or organization making the expos? Do you feel it is all right to teach lies and misrepresent Gods Word, but wrong to expose the error? Contrary to what some may think, it is not unkind and unloving to lay bare falsehood and corruption. Therefore, it is right and proper to speak out strongly against falsehood and corruption. A person or organization that, in imitation of Jesus Christ, has the courage to do so deserves attention and respect.

    *** w59 5/15 305 Is It Wrong to Change Religions? ***


    But what should a person do when he becomes convinced that the religion he inherited is the wrong form of worship, that its teachings are untrue and that its leaders are blind guides who are leading him into the way of divine disapproval? Would it be wrong for him to go against the wishes of his parents and of the community by changing his religion? Or would it be wrong for him not to change? This is a serious decision, and certainly neither the opinions of others nor emotions should be allowed to influence it, because it has to do with his relationship with God.

    I hope this will provide some ammo. Be kind and let them know you care greatly for them and that your door is always open.

    Greven

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