Does any one remember when the cong's were segregated in the South?

by Victorian sky 61 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Sea Hag
    Sea Hag

    Hi Maxwell,

    I graduated in 1960 from South Side High School. That was the last year only white children went to that school as white flight had begun in Memphis and south Memphis was becoming all Black. I questioned why JW's were segregated in the South and was told they had to follow the laws. After meeting the "brothers and sisters" I could tell that most of them wanted it that way and would be offended if it were another way. I knew no Black witnesses in Memphis as we never were allowed to associate with them and by the time they did, I was out.

  • Victorian sky
    Victorian sky

    Canon, are you kidding? The blacks preferred their comfort zones? Really? Is that why 'worldly' blacks went to jail, went on marches and kids were hossed down by fire hoses because they liked being less than? How dare you. I understand that white JW's would have risked sure violence had they all met together but you know what? That didn't stop the few courageous 'worldly' whites from risking everything for their black counterparts during the Civil Rights movement while JW's did nothing but 'wait on the kingdom'. What do the JWs boast about - their great love and how they are the only ones who are willing to die for their brother, well that didn't apply across the south during the 1960s now did it? (And if you think some JWs aren't racist you're deluding yourself)And how do you explain the fact that long after desegregation laws passed, the congs were still segregated with permission from the Society? If that's your definition of love, you and the WTS deserve eachother! - V Sky

  • OHappyDay

    I note that some recent Watchtowers are still warning the brothers against harboring racial or ethnic distrust. Evidently there is yet a problem among some Witnesses, even with the congregations being integrated. How often are we reminded that "God is not partial"? It seems that some of us still are, for one reason or another.

    The worldwide Christian brotherhood still has some cracks in it.

  • Loris

    I moved to Tampa in 1969 from California. The congos were segregated then (for safety's sake) I was appalled when a visiting speaker from Plant City, Florida made a reference to the N***** brothers in his talk. There were no "qualified" brothers in some black hall's so white elders were assigned. It really creeped me out (but not enough to leave).


  • RunningMan

    It seems odd that God's spirit directed organization doesn't know right from wrong until Ceasar tells it.

    Why wasn't the WT society on the cutting edge, doing what was right, even if it endangered their lives? They don't hesitate to endanger their lives by forbidding blood transfusions, organ transplants, vaccinations, etc. Why were they so "pragmatic" on the race question, but the same principle doesn't apply in other areas?

  • Joker10

    Let's look at South Africa: JW's use to sit in different sections at the assemblies,. Whites on one side, blacks on the other side. But it wasn't because they didn't want to sit close to each other, but cecause the LAW required it. However, they would get up and greet each other during the breaks.

  • RunningMan

    But the JWs attitude has always been - if the law is wrong, then damn the law.

    They will kidnap their kids from a hospital to prevent a blood transfusion. They will fight to the supreme court to overturn laws that forbid preaching.

    Whey did they not oppose those wrongful race laws? Why did they not go to court to establish human rights?

  • mizpah

    Many southern states had strict segregation laws before the civil rights laws were passed. The Watchtower Society used this fact as reasons for segregating the congregations and assemblies. "We have to obey Ceasar's Laws." But afterwards, the congregations were slowly integrated when the civil rights laws were established nationally.

    I don't think the majority of Jehovah's Witnesses were prejudiced. But there were a few in the organization thought blacks were inferior and not to be trusted with positions of responsibility. In the twenty five years of association, I only knew of one black circuit overseer in our area. And this was in the mid 70s.

  • JT

    But even now in the South, some blacks are reluctant to go to the integrated Kingdom Halls since they feel it's a betrayal. Seems as though the blacks are more content to withdraw into their own comfort zone rather than to integrate though mixed couples are very common in the South.

    Canon stated the above and was followed by the poster's comments below

    Canon, are you kidding? The blacks preferred their comfort zones? Really? Is that why 'worldly' blacks went to jail, went on marches and kids were hossed down by fire hoses because they liked being less than? How dare you. I understand that white JW's would have risked sure violence had they all met together but you know what? That didn't stop the few courageous 'worldly' whites from risking everything for their black counterparts during the Civil Rights movement while JW's did nothing but 'wait on the kingdom'

    I hate to say but Canon makes a good point about the fact that some blacks don't want to go over to whites Halls but the reason he gives for it is WRONG in my own personal exp other blacks i have talked to about this issue for the last 20+yrs

    you see i grew up in NC during this time and we were excited about going over to the white hall for a number of reasons:

    1. we would be treated as BROTHERS AND EQUALS FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

    2. MY personal reason, the white congos were always nicer and had Air conditioning

    well we black folks got over there and in a number of congo, white bro LEFT THE TRUTH and why cause they could not handle being in the same hall worshipping

    since we went the THEIR HALL they let it be known that we were the OUTSIDERS and so not one hall in our circuit had ONE black PO-- all the black CO were moved from down SOUTH to serve in INNER CITIES - not one black CO was serving prodominately white halls- as a 8yr old kid i never saw a black CO for the next 10yrs serving

    for us black folks it was MOVING UP cause now we had white men who were bussines owners and well respected in town so it felt good for us, but for whites it was humilating to be known as having blacks in your church and it was tough for many whites, while there were those who truly lived the bible in their lives and saw no color the problem was for those who didn't - THEY HELD ALL THE POSITIONs

    SO TO HAVE a man who had racial issues IN CHARGE IS how you spell racism when it comes to reponsiblities in the hall, so for many black i know for my mom and others it was like you and i finding out this aint the truth, it was disallusioning to see that all the pretty words about Jah is not partial- didn't work in reality

    we should have realized that something was wrong, but we were constantly being reassured by many black UNCLE TOMS that we needed to give the whites TIME TO ADJUST - yea right

    the reason is where were looking at wt as a religion and not what it really is A CORPORATION and like many corp there are those who see no color and those who do, -

    while in the real corp world we would call a manager a racist who had color issues, but in wt we called a manager (elder) a person who needed time to mature as a christian, yes THE ODL WAIT ON JAH ROUTINE kept black folks from saying or doing anything, esp since wt DID offer the best thing to racial equilty one could find at that time- so we stayed and waited on Jah to clear things up.

    so for many blacks over the years of trying to wait for Jah to move whites who had this attitude a number of blacks have done exactly what canon described, going back into their own little world.

    while i will give wt credit for giving a black man with NO EDUCATION THE CHANCE TO BE IN CHARGE

    it has been able to use this to hold blacks in-

    i have always admired white bro and why THEY QUESTION THE CO, DO, SOCIETY ALL THE TIME

    it was almost unbelievable to see a white bro question a CO down on where he got info from when the CO would make some off the wall rule, the white bro would challenge him to produce it in PRINT

    while most blacks would never question MASSA-

    EVEN HERE ON THE NET i am so thankful for what white bro have done, the reasearch, the web sites the quotes, the challenges of making me prove this or that-

    i rarely see black bro here, but white bro are here and for me i am so thankful for thier help in helping me and Lady "C" get out of wt-

    will the day come when color will not matter i hope so, but in the mean time we can now do as Ray says he has been able to do for the first time in his life, Judge a man/woman on their own merits alone,

    not thier hours, position, years in THE TRUTH or skin color-

    treat everyone the same and yet at the same time call a spade a spade when needed

  • JCanon
    I hate to say but Canon makes a good point about the fact that some blacks don't want to go over to whites Halls but the reason he gives for it is WRONG in my own personal exp other blacks i have talked to about this issue for the last 20+yrs

    Sorry, but that is the WAY IT IS. I was reporting from personal experience from just a year ago at a congregation in the south that I was associated with. Blacks tend to still be resentful of the white establishment and for many reasons still don't feel that comfortable associating with whites. So they withdraw.

    Further, when I was much younger and went where the "need was greater" in Arkansas, there was always a problem with the black men reaching out and that's because in this particular small town, the employers of these men, who depended upon their jobs for a living would be sodomized by the white store owners and thus they were ashamed. Sodomy was a way to always remind the black men who they had to depend upon and so they wouldn't get too "uppity". So psychological segregation and prejudice are still practiced by some in the South. Plus I'd see confederate flags all the time in cars and trucks which was always a reminder, regardless of the smiling, apologetic face, that the South was a place where blacks and others had an inferior position.

    Also, while all was well at the assemblies and at the kingdom halls, sometimes blacks who had grown so quickly, the territory for a single congregation was just a couple of city blocks. The territory got worked regularly. So sometimes we get some caravans together and go into the sparsely witnessed area in the very rich Palos Verdes Area, etc. Guess what? They didn't want blacks coming into that area and the brothers asked that we not work that territory.

    Plus there was something else interesting that went on as well. That is, in the south, the blacks were told to only witness to blacks and work the black houses. That was fair enough. But the white missionaries would work the black areas too by preference. ???

    Plus there was always the talk that ultimately, blacks never had high positions within the higher eschelons of the organization as much progressed had been made. But it was actually expressed in writing and in recognition, generally, that blacks were neither qualified nor probably had the "networking" skills or whatever to really be in leadership roles, particularly dealing with whites who resented them anyway.

    And once while discussing on these very boards that I had a personal acquiantance with a very proud "registered racist" (he wasn't too bright, obviously, I liked him--but he just repeated what somone else told him), someone told me to be careful I don't get "eaten".

    Problem is, I had already confirmed that the Southerns bar-b-qued the slaves for food, using children mostly in pot pies. Apparently, black flesh is sweeter tasting than white. Point being, this is an age-old sacred secret of the South that canabalism was customary in the South. But this is an age-old European secret as well who were also cannibals, particularly of black meat. The secret basis of the term QUI-SINE and BAR-B-QUE relate to that. QUE referring to CU or CUSH, and SINE referring to eat. Thus the highest form of dining was black flesh in Europe at one time. And, of course, Bar-Be-QUE = son of Cush.

    So, when you REALLY know about the extent of the background of the South and you realize that white understand that blacks were not just cattle to them, but EDIBLE CATTLE it makes for a hard gap for some to get by. Eating black flesh and killing blacks for sport was part of the "Grand Old South" before the Northerners couldn't take it any more and had to free the slaves. They probably didn't care that much about freedom of rights either. The original plan was to free them and send them back to Africa. But the ratio of blacks to whites in the South was so great and their absence would cripple the South so terribly they were allowed to stay on and thus continue to help the South. They still barely made enough to make a living, but at least they were not at the whim and call of every white man, young or old, perverted or no.

    So it's been "fashionable" of late to be multi-cultural but who knows when that will become passe? Plus blacks can't take it personally. Ghandi had the same problem with Christian Europeans in India and the Jews, who are as white as anybody, had problems with the white Christians in Germany. Ask any Native American Indian or any Asian or anybody? A key "racism" issue is characteristic of the Western European culture. And why not. The first person who ever penned the word "Master Race" was none other than Aristotle!

    Now wouldn't it be interesting if Christ returned in the flesh at the second coming, not as a glorious Jew in the line of King David, or some pious monastery priest among the Jesuits, but as a flaming black ex-drag queen? Just to get the closet racists to jump ship to cut down on judgment day time?

    God wouldn't do that to the racists, now would he? Isn't that overdoing it a bit wouldn't you say?

    I guess, unless he hates people who look down on what he has created, calling what he made beautiful ugly.

    As noted, the "666" on the Beast that identifies Christendom as the trinity believing Europeans, is the same "name" of their consistent hypocrital double standard of racism, KKK. The Nazis were thus aptly referred to as "Gog of Magog" who desolated Jerusalem, but it would seem those desires, policies and practices will again become an issue after the millennium when Gog of Magog rebels.

    But why? Can't whites live in peace with the rest of mankind?

    MY THEORY IS...that it has to do with wealth and the level of lifestyle that can be achieved if you're both white and rich. The exclusive clubs and all that must be a huge send up. But it works out that likely there will be no extravagantly rich in the new order since to really pull it off you need servants and lots of them, and that is not likely to happen. If you were rich, with billions of dollars and huge palace with a golf course for your back much fun would it be if you had to keep all that up yourself? Cut your own lawn? Cook your own food. Do your own housecleaning. Do you own shopping? Dust all that fine china? Not much fun right?

    Which is the point. What seems so natural and glamorous to us and "successful" oftentimes is at the expense of someone elses poverty or freedom.

    And isn't it interesting that those who are oppressed often bear the SHAME of the impropriety of the oppressor? We hate the child born out of wedlock more than we despise the parents that conceived it? Is that right?

    But EVEN SO....considering ALL...PROBABLY, and I believe this, some do truly love everybody regardless of their color and some particularly because of that.

    Which brings up one last experience of recent note. One new white brother was so very, very sensitive to the issue and how, when the blacks were not around whites would talk about them, that he was determined to marry a black sister and did so! So that's another issue--OVER COMPENSATION.

    What I've found as well, is that often people of different races get along QUITE well in the insular environment of the organization. But once you start putting the races together, you know the sexual appeal is going to get going and the result are mixed romances and marriages, and that affects the entire family and community. Now some can accept that and it's fine, but others have a very hard time with it. It's like "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in the military for gays. FANTASY and DENIAL are two often used means to deal with issues one is in the closet about. And some for those who are not only out of the closet but who still believe in white supremacy.

    Considering all the above, I think the witnesses have done the most and gone the farthest to make each INDIVIDUAL feel his God-given sense of equality, in spite of the Eurocentric oppressive culture we live in. To that, they should respected for.

    It's a strange world. Things will be different under the millennium, of course....


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