Non-believers......... Do they "bash" Believers too hard?

by gumby 66 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • gumby
    What do I do Obiwan/logan do I force the issue to free her from the cult or do I let her live out her remaining years believing she has made the right decision, every time I've brought it up she's become visibly ill.

    I don't want to answer for the two you asked comments from but...... I would leave your mother alone. What the hell good would it do to cause a lifechanging effect on a person who does not have that many years left....especially after you said she becomes ill at the subject? I would make her as happy as she can be while you still have her.

    ( edited to add.....thanks for understanding KGB's situation .He's had a damn tough road)


  • seven006

    Little Toe,

    As I have stated to you before, I don't see you as a main stream Christian. You seem to have some balance, open mindedness, and common sense.

    I can understand you seeing some nonbelievers as bigots., some of them are just as some Christians are. I don't know if you know it or not but the KKK(Ku Klux Klan) claims to be a Christian organization and they are the biggest red neck bigots on the planet.

    The Nazi army had the words "Gotmitence" (sp?) on their belt buckles. It meant "God is with us." They also claimed to be of the Christian persuasion.

    One of the big problems I have with Christians is a good majority of them can't exactly define what a Christian is. In Ireland both the Protestant and Catholics claim to be Christian but they have been killing each other for decides.

    You call some nonbelievers bigots. I know I am going to eventually get shit for cutting and pasting from the dictionary all the time but I find it useful in making misconceptions a little clearer. Here is the exact definition of the word bigot;

    Main Entry: big·ot
    Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot
    Date: 1661
    : a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
    - big·ot·ed /-g&-t&d/ adjective
    - big·ot·ed·ly adverb

    I see this definition demonstrated by Christians more than I do non-Christians. To me, a person grows by having an open mind. An open mind does not close to things once they are comfortable to a certain concept. They examen and they do ask for "proof." We all accepted what we were told because we cared for the people who were teaching us. It is quite an emotional shock to come to the realization that not only what we were taught is a lie, it also shocks us to realize those who taught us were misled and have closed their minds to any reasoning or logic.

    When that is your parent's and their religion takes them away from us because of it, we get pissed off. Pissed off people have strong opinions. That doesn't make them a bigot.

    The word Christian covers a lot of ground and it is the Christians, not the non-Christians that have been forced into fragmenting it's meaning to fit their issues with other Christians. The fact is, they all claim to follow the bible and the teachings of Christ. It is the bible and some of those teachings I see as myth and hypocritical actions. If you wish to disclaim some of those teaching of the bible then more power to you. But if you take what you like out of it and disregard the rest does that make you a Christian or does that make you an admirer of specific guide lines written about in the Christian bible?

    When the members of the KKK say they follow the same book you say that you follow, unless you specify which part of it you follow and which part of it you don't, it is hard to tell the difference between the two of you unless we have conversations like this. Unfortunately, I think that is why the topic of Christians and non-Christians gets discussed so much on this board. It's all about specific definitions that Christians change according to their likes and dislikes.

    I go by your actions and demeanor. As I said before, I over look the fact you call yourself a Christian. I hope that's OK.


  • shotgun

    Thanks Gumby

    That is pretty much the decision I've made with my mother, but it still hurts to see her worship that f**king organization. I was only trying to let Logan and Obiwan know that right or wrong there are situations and circumstances which are not cut and dry, I'm in one. They probably already know of some themselves.

  • teenyuck

    There are many christians on the board who don't tell us we are going to meet Satan in hell. KGB is a little *unique* in that respect.

    When that attitude get expressed over and over, then an apology, then an exit, then a homecoming, then the whole thing over again, you have to admit: the man just opens himself up to ridicule.

    The majority of the posters who believe in God and that the bible is inspired don't tell us we need Jesus to save us and that we are going to hell....they debate issues, sometimes heatedly, and agree to disagree. Everyone walks away to the next thread as *friends*.

    Having our own resident Billy Graham/Jerry Falwell/Jim Bakker has been enlightening. It has convinced me that not only do I not need Jesus to save me, I definitely do not want to go back to preaching to people again. Been there, done that.

  • obiwan
    What do I do Obiwan/logan do I force the issue to free her from the cult or do I let her live out her remaining years believing she has made the right decision, every time I've brought it up she's become visibly ill.

    I wouldn't call your mother an easy target, if that is what you mean. I need to make it clear that I would not approach soemone to tell them thier wrong, I would only bring this out if it was brought up in discussion by others, such as it does here. When you have a witness or anyone from another religion come up to you and ask your opinion, they are opening the door, I will not just blatantly open it for them, that to me is rude and inconsiderate.


    My point is when you see an easy target sometimes its the humane and compassionate person who is able to restrain himself from squeezing the trigger and waiting for game which is healthy and able to protect itself.

    I couldn't agree more. The only problem with that here is, your only looking at a screen, it's hard to know a person's mental state yntil the dust settle's and it's all over. Your mother obviously is not in a mental condition to handle such revelations. When it comes to a face to face issue, that's when the judgement should come in, but even then, if you don't know the person, how can you know?

    This is just a guess shotgun, but I think your mother may already have some ideas about the org, especially if she becomes visibly ill. She may know there is some truth to what you say.

    You've made a good point, one I did not consider, thank you.

  • Phantom Stranger
    Phantom Stranger

    I should mention that my observations were not directed at any religious poster in particular (but I could easily have directed them at one poster around here... but not on this thread yet).

  • seven006


    Gumby ( sorry for my horrid spelling....I'm a dumbass) >>>


    I hate to burst you bubble but I am not a big drinker at all. I use to be, I really want to be, but when I do try, I keep falling down and telling people that I don't really like I love them. I hate looking stupid so I don't drink much at all. As I said, I do drink too much when Alan F. comes to visit. We tend to make ourselves sick trying to out smart each other and we need a bottle of 18 year old scotch to help bring ourselves back to reality. It really pisses his wife Julie off but she has now come to expect it and begrudgingly accept it. I did however beat both his and his wife's ass at trivial pursuit last time we got together. Their two bright brains against me and Jack Daniel's. I have all kinds of worthless shit stored up in my brain.

    I have a couple of things that I stick to religiously. I strive to keep an open mind about everything and I have no problem at all admitting that I am wrong or I made a mistake. You learn from your mistakes and Iv made a tun of them. If mistake making was an Olympic sport, I would have won the gold many times.


  • run dont walk
    run dont walk

    seven006 (dave) summed it up perfectly !!!!!!!!!!!!

    I do not believe in God, probaly has alot to do with being a JW since birth, but then again I also believe that it is very unlikely that the universe as we know it just happened by accident, so I am contradicting myself aren't I.

    I don't hate someone because they believe in God, what is wrong with believing in God, I don't know alot about other religions, so who am I to say, maybe the Catholics or Mormons or Muslims or Buddists or some African tribe in the back woods know everything about God, I have not researched their religion, and if there are sites for x-Catholics, x-Mormons, x-Muslims etc, what could I possibly contribute to that site, I have no knowledge of their beliefs.

    What I do hate is the watchtower and it's organization, and I do hate the apologists (even on this board), that think the Watchtower is ok and not that bad. Why ??? because I have researched the Watchtower inside and out, see their practices and beliefs, how people are treated, and the unwritten rules that are endless in the borg.

    If we were to join a JW site that is for JW's, and expressed how we feel, would we be kicked off the site ??? DAMN RIGHT WE WOULD, very quickly too, I am not saying these apologists should be kicked off this site, the fact they are here they could be thinking about leaving ??? who are we to say ???, but don't come on this site and CONSTANTLY stand up for the Watchtower, if you have a belief or feeling and express it, expect a little backlash at times, but all in all after the thread has disappeared 30 pages back, all of us should let it go and move on, if it is a constant problem with a poster, then what would you expect.

    I really don't think that believing in God is a problem for anyone on this board or in the entire world.

  • freedom96

    I think I can sum it up easily.

    We need to remember, we all believed in God at one time. For those who choose not to believe in Him now, that is entirely your decision and your right to do so.

    But to bash those that choose to believe, is just stupid. Who the hell are any of us to bash another just because they choose to believe something different from someone else?

    As long as what one believes does not harm others, I think they should have the right to do so. A debate, if both parties wish to, is ok, but name calling, bashing, is very childish, and I for one simply don't have time for someone such as this.

  • logansrun

    Little Toe,

    Well, Christians are f*cked up anyway so why shouldn't I point that out to them?

    Actually, that really is your attitude, isn't it?

    Well, not exactly....but not "no" either. "F*cked up" is a pretty strong way of putting it -- a term I'd only use for the more brainless and militant posters here. I wouldn't say that about you in general.

    Frankly, you're welcome to it, but don't expect me not to object.

    That's cool. Bring it on!

    Some beliefs are far less damaging than others.


    If living a "wholesome life"[tm] and having a nice social group, are the baggage of holding a certain belief set - why begrudge someone that?

    Ah, but you know darned well that that is not all that is involved in Christianity -- far from it. I won't even get into what you should already know.

    For some, holding certain beliefs is no worse than believing their football team will win, this year.

    True. But, if that is all it amounts to they should not mind it so much when people call their team lousy losers.


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