JW Father Kills Self and 12-year-old Son

by fjtoth 98 Replies latest social current

• 

  Farkel

  Dubs are not supposed to own guns. Therefore, he should be DF'd. Or at least publically reproved. Since the WTS keeps stats on dead DF'd people, why can't they DF people who are already dead, and keep more stats on them?

  That's what I'd like to know. I'll bet the local dubs don't mourn either of them for more than ten minutes. Dubs are the most cold-blooded and heartless people I know. They are only concerned about saving their own sorry asses, and view the death of others as a mere inconvenience in their pathetic lives.

  Farkel
• 

  Room 215

  Amac... shame! Whatever the dubious merits of your argument, your mocking of FJ's picture is beneath contempt.
• 

  rocketman

  Look good to the world and hide your dirty laundry.

  I've been thinking for a while that hidden wife abuse will be the next big scandal to hit the JWs. How many of these murder-suicides will there have to be before someone recognizes this is a BIG problem?

  Good points Lady Lee. Who knows what was roiling inside this guy's mind. But the pressure to look good to outsiders (of the family) is enormous.
• 

  rocketman

  Why the F**K do people kill their kids when they take their own lives?

  I wonder the same thing every time one of these things happen. If you're gonna do yourself in, why take others?
• 

  amac

  fjtoth -

  And I'll bet you "stepped down" due to your awesome humility!!!

  I stepped down because I wanted to address all the questions I had.

  MY! MY! Remind us to never, ever, doubt your credibility again! Nor your modesty, meekness and lowliness of mind!

  Oh please! The only reason I stated that was because you assumed I was a bible study who never "matured spiritually." As if that would matter to the discussion anyway. I could give a rat's ass what you or anyone else was in the org, and I would assume that people would feel the same about me. Except for you, it seemed important to you, so I stated what I had done.

  Berylblue

  I can't tell you that your perceptions are wrong; nor can you tell me I didn't experience what I experienced, or saw what I saw, or heard (first hand) what I heard from the victims themselves. Let's just leave it at that.

  Fair enough. And I hope that everyone realizes that I am not saying they are wrong with their experiences.
• 

  Country Girl

  The thing is: this is just not limited to JW couples, this problem is played out in every city, every day, all the time. Although the JW's may be known to "downsize" the problem, that is just not common to them. It's common to all groups who have an interest in maintaining their squeaky clean image in the community. You will find this problem on Mormon, Adventist, and Catholic sites.

  The problem boils down to people thinking they have the right to make a life or death decision for another human, which they don't. It is simply the matter of control. No one has the right to control the actions of another free-thinking human of choice. The baseline is that every person is on this Earth is free to make the choices that make them happy, regardless of what anyone else thinks, and that is it.

  I know, I know... we are only concerned when this happens within the JW community because we want to cipher them out as having some sort of deviant behavior. But, you know, their behavior is no different that the thousands of other Catholics, Muslims, Methodiest, etc. on the face of the earth that have marital and family problems and kill themselves and their families. It's not a slap in the face of religion, it's a slap in the face of the person who's doing the killing's character.

  CG
• 

  amac

  Great post CG.
• 

  fjtoth

  CG,
  

  With all due respect, I have to say you are not very familiar with JWs and their policies, written or unwritten. When you compared JWs to Methodists, that's when the alarm buzzer shrieked the loudest.

  Yes, JWs compare well with Muslims and other strict sects, but not with religions where the members don't have to face a committee nearly every time their conduct or speech comes under suspicion by someone else in the group. Methodists, Presbyterians, and most other Protestants and even Catholics don't live in a spy system such as exists among JWs. And that spy system exists in every single one of their congregations, regardless of Amac's blindness to it or, shall I say, his defense of it.

  Time and again I witnessed innocent women and also men being abused verbally by COs and elders, including elders at Bethel, and they simply had to accept it. When someone higher up in the JW hierarchy gives what they classify as "scriptural counsel," but what they really view as infallible pontifical pronouncements from God himself, the expectation is that the receiver should accept it. Often the basis of the "counsel" is simply a personality clash between the giver and the receiver. Any resistance is viewed by the majority as lack of subordination and even rebellion. JWs often have to swallow any pride they have with the realization that there is no one who will defend them against unjust charges within the organization. Several times I saw as many as three or four persons restricted for a lengthy period of time simply because they dared to contradict an off-hand judgment against a fellow JW who they knew with certainty was completely innocent and was being wrongly accused. The only remedy ever offered for injustice by the elders and sometimes by husbands is: "Just wait on Jehovah." In the meantime, as the innocent person waits year after year "on Jehovah," the bossy elder or husband receives several promotions or positions of advancement within the organization.

  I was a Methodist at one time in my life. I was also a Presbyterian. Then JWs came along and persuaded my parents that those churches were of the Devil. These days I enjoy association with Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians and other Protestants. Perhaps only if you've been a JW can you appreciate the extreme difference in atmosphere among other churches compared with being among JWs.
• 

  amac

  I have to say you are not very familiar with JWs and their policies, written or unwritten.

  I'm starting to assume this is what you think of anyone who does not agree with you or think the same way as you.

  And that spy system exists in every single one of their congregations, regardless of Amac's blindness to it or, shall I say, his defense of it.

  You are so off base it is laughable. When have I ever said anything about a "spy system" or even in defense of the elder arrangement itself?

  Just curious, do you think that while the JW elders were telling wives to stay with their abusive husbands that every worldly person was completely aware and conscious of domestic violence and supportive to it's victims? Are you so dense as to realize that the world in general has ignored this problem for centuries up until recently? Can you not comprehend that this was/is a worldwide problem, not something that the WT had an exclusive on or something they originated? I acknowledge that elders no doubt gave the bad advice described, and that the WT has printed some articles that may have downplayed the idea of leaving an abusive mate (and some saying it was OK.) But since it was a worldwide problem, I can hardly blame the WT for coming up with this bad advice since many religions probably would have said similar things.

  You know what, forget the whole argument. You were probably a whacko elder at one point, and now your just a whacko apostate.
• 

  fjtoth

  You know what, forget the whole argument. You were probably a whacko elder at one point, and now your just a whacko apostate.

  You were the "whacko" who made this into an argument, amac. It looks like you're now sorry you got it started. Whenever you want to continue, some of us will be here waiting for you.