Where are the EXJW Feminist Philosophers?

by Luther bertrand 90 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • Esse quam videri
    Esse quam videri


  • Luther bertrand
    Luther bertrand
    I will post my result in a youtube channel that I will be starting.
  • Laika
    Tal - Are you keeping up to date with the feminist movement in the past few years?
    If you were you would know my comment is not even controversial.

    Hmmm... it is quite controversial really! I've read quite a lot of feminist works and think I'm reasonably up to date. I haven't really picked up on any 'misandry'

  • Laika
    I look forward to seeing the results Luther, I think this is an aspect of JWism I'd like to see critiqued more, I think patriarchy has certainly been unhelpful to my father for example, and my parents relationship of course.
  • bohm

    Well, I think there is still a lot of good reasons to have a feminism movement which fights for women's rights, however feminism has never been a very coherent group, and recently things seem to have gotten worse. To get an idea about the mental climate of *some* feminists (my sexist impression: mostly male feminists), I recommend people to follow Michael Nugents blog: http://www.michaelnugent.com/ He is currently undergoing some kind of assault. For those who don't know, Michael Nugent is like the least controversial person you can imagine, but he is getting called all kinds of things for no sensible reasons.

    For those who want a bit of background, here is on feminist (ex feminist?) who explains why she no longer call herself feminist along with her view of where (the bad parts of) the current movement has gone wrong:


    At its height, postmodernism as an artistic movement produced non-chronological, plotless literature and presented urinals as art. In social theory, postmodernists 'deconstructed' everything considered true and presented all as meaningless. However, having done this, there was nowhere else to go and nothing more to say. In the realm of social justice, nothing can be accomplished unless we accept that certain people in a certain place experience certain disadvantages. For this, a system of reality needs to exist, and so new theories of gender and race and sexuality began to emerge comprised of mininarratives. These categories were held to be culturally constructed and constructed hierarchically to the detriment of women, people of colour and LGBTs. Identity was paramount.

    Liberal feminist aims gradually shifted from the position:

    "Everyone deserves human rights and equality, and feminism focuses on achieving them for women."


    "Individuals and groups of all sexes, races, religions and sexualities have their own truths, norms and values. All truths, cultural norms and moral values are equal. Those of white, western, heterosexual men have unfairly dominated in the past so now they and all their ideas must be set aside for marginalised groups."

    Liberal feminism had shifted from the universality of equal human rights to identity politics. No longer were ideas valued on their merit but on the identity of the speaker and this was multifaceted, incorporating sex, gender identity, race, religion, sexuality and physical ability. The value of an identity in social justice terms is dependent on its degree of marginalisation, and these stack up and vie for primacy. This is where liberal feminism went so badly wrong. When post-colonial guilt fought with feminism, feminism lost. When it fought with LGBT rights, they lost too.

    So aware of Western imperialism having trampled on other cultures historically, western liberal feminism now embraced their most patriarchal aspects. A western liberal feminist can, on the same day, take part in a slut walk to protest western women being judged by their clothing and accuse anyone criticising the niqab of Islamophobia. She can demand the prosecution of a Christian baker for refusing to bake a wedding cake for a same sex-couple, and condemn the planning of a Gay Pride march through a heavily Muslim area as racist. Many intersectional feminists do not limit themselves to the criticism of other white, western feminists but pour vitriolic, racist abuse on liberal Muslim and ex-Muslim feminists and LGBT activists. The misogyny and homophobia of Christianity may be criticised by all (quite rightly) but the misogyny and homophobia of Islam by none, not even Muslims. The right to criticise one's own culture and religion is seemingly restricted to white westerners. (The best analysis of 'The Racism of Some Anti-racists' is by Tom Owolade.)

  • Mephis

    Regardless of where feminism is in other areas, a feminist critique of JW world has the potential to offer up useful insights. As feminist criticism has done in the past for other fields.

    One of the most useful things I ever had done for me when I had physically left but was still carrying a lot of JW theological baggage was a (female) Anglican theologian rip the New Testament apart using feminist criticism. Stripping things back to a counter-history where the message to women of Luke's gospel is taken up, rather than a (patriarchal) hierarchy imposed.

    All those JW assumptions which you really don't notice growing up with a penis but of which if you chat with female ex-jws they were or came to be very aware.

    I'd personally read with interest if anyone were able to do that. It may well be niche, but so are many other things.

  • TD
    I would really enjoy working with someone who has an academic background in feminist philosophy, or at least someone knowledgeable.

    There is zero argument that the JW faith is miserably patriarchal, but as someone knowledgeable on the subject, I (respectfully) believe that you are marching into a philosophical cul-de-sac.

    Times have changed considerably...

  • alecholmesthedetective
    If it's mentioned, there are one or two prolific members that I guess, feel the need to be rude and demeaning (showing their ignorance).

    I find it telling that if one dares challenge an argument from a feminist, a trans person, a muslim, a university student, a so-called liberal these days, or worse disagree with them on something one can be accused of being brusque, not nice, racist, bigoted, and so on.

    Whatever happened to open discussion, challenging any and all ideas, and defending one's position with evidence, and by the logic and solidity of one's arguments?

  • LoveUniHateExams

    Where are the EXJW Feminist Philosophers?

    They're busy doing the things that really matter with all the other feminists - complaining about 'manspreading', cataloguing microaggressions and no-platforming Germaine Greer.

  • rebel8

    We can all agree the jw cult is misogynistic in the past, present and future.

    For those who are trying to reduce the future growth of the cult and shrink it now, publicizing the misogyny is an effective tool. It is also important for the personal growth of ex-cultists.

    It would be a shame to allow external debates to drown out this important cult issue.

    Comments about how annoying other extremists are seem to have no place in this thread.

    It saddens me that nearly every discussion on the Internet that aims to discuss egalitarianism degrades into this same old crap.

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