I have a question.

by DATA-DOG 49 Replies latest watchtower beliefs


    According to JWism, God didn't cause suffering, he just allowed it. Wow, that's really, really, dumb.

    To help humans out, Jeehoobidoob provided the ransom. In order to make it work, Jesus had to be perfect. If Jesus was sinful, the whole plan would fail. So, what did Jehobo do about that potential deal-breaker? As the Grand Purposer, he purposes that his Holy Spirit would shield baby Jesus from sin. GENIUS!!!

    Holy Spirit will also be used to bring sick, feeble, old, fat, wrinkly, bald, crippled, "imperfect" J-dumbs back to perfection! Even resurrected ones will experience Holy Spirit healing! It's really easy for Jeehoobidoob! In fact, he's just waiting with bated breath for the opportunity! Right?? It's so simple for him to use Holy Spirit to do anything he wants!

    Question: Since Adam and Eve were the sinners, why couldn't Jarhoobity use Holy Spirit to shield Cain and Able, and whatever sisters they needed to boink, from the effects of sin?

    Why allow thousands and thousand of years, and untold deaths? Why not let Adam and Eve die, while their offspring lived in perfection, watching their sinful parents die? What a witness that would have been!

    If Jeehoober used the HS on Jesus, if he's going to use it on humans in the future, why couldn't he have used it at the beginning and saved all this suffering?


  • OneEyedJoe
    The only explanation is that he's an asshole that puts a greater value on proving a point than he does on human lives and suffering.
  • stephanie61092

    Here's the answer I would have given as an active JW:

    When Adam & Eve sinned, they didn't just disobey, they questioned Jehovah's sovereignty, or Jehovah's right to rule. Jehovah allowed the rebels to keep living because he devised a way to restore mankind to imperfection while also demonstrating his right to rule.

    By sinning, Adam & Eve passed sin down to their children, like a dent in a cake pan. The cake mix might be perfect, but once baked in the dented pan, it will always be imperfect. Again, Jehovah didn't protect Adam & Eve's children (like Cain or Abel) with HS because he needed to demonstrate to EVERYONE in existence at that time (because there was sOoOo many) that mankind was going to fail terribly and he was the one with the ability to manage humans best. Jehovah needed enough time to pass to demonstrate that all other forms of government would fail.

    Honestly, reading your post and my "jw reply" makes me sick. All the excuses for all of the untold suffering is really just plain stupid. I don't know if that answers

  • OneEyedJoe
    Even if you're going to give the JW reasoning a pass, couldn't he have said enough is enough by now? How many generations of people do we need to see come and go before we establish a pattern? More to the point, how many billions need to suffer and die? Couldn't we have wrapped this up after WWI? Or perhaps after the hundred years' war? Or hell, pretending that the flood happened, why not wrap up this failed experiment after that? He could've made one family perfect, it would've even been less work for him! Just pop Jesus down and hit him with a lightning bold and make Noah and family perfect and call it a day.
  • slimboyfat

    The answer to suffering in the Bible in many places seems to be that we don't know why there is suffering.

    For example:

    Where Job asked God why he let him suffer God told Job it was not his place to ask such questions.

    The prophets constantly asked God how can you look at all this badness and suffering and do nothing about it?

    The Pslams say that God is righteous but that humans do not understand his ways because his way of thinking is vastly superior to ours.

    Paul said that humans will never be able to understand God's way of looking at things.

    Revelation says that in the end God will roll the heavens into the earth and God will end suffering.

    The Bible itself does not seem to offer justifications. It seems to say:

    1. Suffering is real

    2. Righteous people are angry at God for not doing anything

    3. We do not understand God's perspective

    4. In fact it's not just that we don't understand but that we cannot and never will understand

    5. God will restore mankind and all creation and end pain

  • cofty

    The bible does not claim humans cannot understand why god allows suffering. You might want to take a look at those texts again and consider the context.

    The bible offers a number of different reasons for suffering depending on whether it is pre or post exile OT or NT you are interested in.

    The OT is unapologetic in asserting god causes suffering and that humans have no right complain. OT god is an arrogant bastard - that is the whole point of Job.

    There are no answers to natural evil in the bible that does not contradict other things the bible says about god.

    SBF - Your post was even more lame than the worse JW apologist.

  • slimboyfat

    The Bible often says that humans cannot understand the mind of God, so when it comes to why does God allow suffering it follows.

    Clearly the point of Job is not to paint God as an "arrogant bastard", the point is to show that humans are not in a position to ask God to give an account of himself.

    The prophets did not offer simple answers. They shared the anger and incomprehension.

    The Bible also said that creation will be restored and suffering will end.

  • cofty

    No you are just making stuff up and paying no attention to the context. The bible is 66 books with no theme and no agreement about important questions.

    OT prophets have no problem asserting that god does bad shit to hurt people.

    The NT makes numerous statements that make god a liar when it comes to the problem of evil.

  • cofty
    The prophets did not offer simple answers.

    I gave you empty stomachs in every city

    and lack of bread in every town,

    yet you have not returned to me,”

    declares the Lord.

    7 “I also withheld rain from you

    when the harvest was still three months away.

    I sent rain on one town,

    but withheld it from another.

    One field had rain;

    another had none and dried up.

    8 People staggered from town to town for water

    but did not get enough to drink,

    yet you have not returned to me,”

    declares the Lord.

    9 “Many times I struck your gardens and vineyards,

    destroying them with blight and mildew.

    Locusts devoured your fig and olive trees,

    yet you have not returned to me,”

    declares the Lord.

    10 “I sent plagues among you

    as I did to Egypt.

    I killed your young men with the sword,

    along with your captured horses.

    I filled your nostrils with the stench of your camps,

    yet you have not returned to me,”

    declares the Lord. - Amos 4

  • slimboyfat

    I don't disagree the Bible says lots of different things. Even so it seems to be fairly consistent about a couple of things.

    1. God is righteous.

    2. We will never understand God or his way of looking at things.

    Can you think of any parts that say God is unrighteousness or that humans are capable of having the mind of God?

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