1 Timothy 2:11-15...Woman and silence in the congreagation

by RULES & REGULATIONS 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  venus

  By saying “Adam was formed first, then Eve; also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and came to be in transgression” Paul is talking about a different God than the one found in Genesis Chapter 1.

  In the first creation account, God is a God of order because He creates plants, land, rivers, sea species, land animals, etc. before he creates humans “in His image” which suggests He is benevolent whereas in the second creation account, we find a different God who creates man first out of dry earth before he creates rivers, plants, animals, etc. then a woman from his rib, a God who treats humans much harsher than the first God as He restricts Adam and Eve to a plot of land, forbids them from accessing true knowledge, and then exiles and brings torment to all human beings for the disobedience of Adam and Eve.

  It is understandable why Paul chose the second creation account to project his idea about inferiority of women.
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  Phizzy

  The Bible writers wrote for the people of their own time, to base 21st Century practice, and base rules upon, such writings is plainly stupid.

  And of course, the JW Org cherry picks which bits of Scripture it will actually pay attention to.

  Just as a side point, the vast majority of Scholars in the field of N.T writings concur that the Letters to Timothy were not written by Paul, but were written many decades after his death, probably close to 100 A.D.

  This rather takes away any "authority" from the Letters.
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  Diogenesister

  The suppression of women in the Borg has always made me furious, especially since it seems to be getting worse with the whole head scarf thing, and the whole no trousers thing. Do they not realise that it makes the women look odd and out of place?

  It is getting worse. I was around ( though a child) since the 70s and I think the attitude to women has worsened. I think women have a lot to do with it too, with this stupid head covering nonsense. Only batty women did it in the 70s. The women have so little to think about they almost go into it even more militantly - a kind of reverse militant - like modern young Muslim women.
  
  
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  Finkelstein

  1 Timothy 2:11-15 New International Version (NIV)

  11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

  Woman were also forbidden to speak inside Temples but were allowed in and around to clean.

  Lets face it ancient Hebrew men saw women as bought for possessions, which also meant to be in submission to men.

  The power controlling men arranged it that way and realistically you can see this social structure in many religious institutions. ie. Muslim and numerous Christian based faiths.
  

  Quite the second class position in their socialized social environment.
  
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  BluesBrother

  When women were first allowed in Min. School it was claimed that by addressing the talk to a “ householder” they were not directly addressing the cong.- so that was o k .

  Does that make sense?
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  TD

  Does that make sense?

  No, it doesn't.

  If the TMS (Do they still call it that?) was strictly a training program in the door to door ministry, then the males would have "householders" too.

  Contrariwise, if it is as they have often claimed, a course in public speaking, then the females should face the audience.

  Even within the framework of JW beliefs, this is not "teaching" as it is done under the auspices of a "school" and the participants are in fact, "students"
  

  (I have to admit, I'm curious about the down vote. I don't agree with JW views of women; I'm just pointing out that they're not being consistent even by their own rules.)
  
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  EverApostate

  Another similar Bible Gem

  1 Corinthians 14:34 Women are to be silent in the churches. They are not permitted to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they wish to inquire about something, they are to ask their own husbands at home; for it is dishonorable for a woman to speak in the church

  It is dishonorable for a woman to speak in the congregation. (dishonorable – How misogynistic)
  

  And Watchtower bypasses this by allowing women to act in a conversation, indirectly speaking as well as preach in the congregation. This is like paying a traffic violation fine first and then violating the traffic rules. Taking advantage of loop holes.
  

  Despite these misogynistic and male chauvinistic verses, woman are the larger army in any Christendom sect.
  
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  Finkelstein

  Despite these misogynistic and male chauvinistic verses,

  woman are the larger army in any Christendom sect.

  Ironic as it is true with JWS as well , there are more woman than men.

  You have to remember god is a man in ancient Hebrew theology.
  
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  OrphanCrow

  EverApostate: And Watchtower bypasses this by allowing women to act in a conversation, indirectly speaking as well as preach in the congregation.

  And not only that. A JW woman is perfectly fine when she is talking to males outside of the congregation. Then, she is required and expected to take the teaching role and many JW women do so with pride.

  The prohibitions against the women in the org only apply within the congregation and it is only JW males who are entitled to the women's deference. JW males only.
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  RULES & REGULATIONS

  EverAposate wrote:
  It is dishonorable for a woman to speak in the congregation. (dishonorable – How misogynistic)
  And Watchtower bypasses this by allowing women to act in a conversation, indirectly speaking as well as preach in the congregation.

  So, the Watchtower Society bypass the word ''teach'' in the congregation and allow women '' to act in a conversation'' at the meetings. How do they explain the words '' to be silent in the congregation (church)?''

  si•lent
  

  1. making no sound; quiet; still

  .2. refraining from speech

  3. speechless; mute

  4. not inclined to speak.

  5. characterized by absence of speech or sound