Just a little more clarifying thought. The scripture told why there would be no pain, because the evils of this world will have passed. So the pain it is talking about are the pains caused by the evils of this world, not the ones caused by possession of a nervous system that assists us with appropriate pain signals.
No more pain sorrow or crying in new system!!!!!!!
by atomant 42 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Xanthippe
Hello lanalonger. When you say you will learn to cope with losing impermanent things when you're in paradise I just wondered if you include the people here on this forum and your nonJW relatives, neighbours, and colleagues in that?
You can only suffer by continuing to tell yourself a ‘story’ about how a certain thing should not have happened, how terrible it is, how you’ll never get over it, etc.
No negative mind chatter, no suffering.
I think the saying that encompasses it goes like this, ‘pain is inevitable, misery is optional.'So we’ll experience the gamut of human feelings, but we’ll have learned to reframe them in emotionally healthy ways, to not ‘attach’ unhealthily and to be able to ‘let go’ when the situation calls for it.
Also it surprises me that someone who's done so much reading on human psychology, albeit pop psychology and has been in the JWs since before '75 still wanted to get reinstated after a 'break' out of the religion. Why did you go back I wonder? And welcome to the forum.
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lanalonger
In order for the earth to be free of wickedness, some persons will end up dying. But as it stands, we are all dying. So either the whole human family keeps suffering, or some are destroyed. Will you go on record as stating that all the suffering and dying should continue, and that that is preferable to the death of the already-dying who reject God's rulership?
I can unequivocally learn to cope with the potential deaths of family, colleagues, etc. (again, they are already dying) if it means no more sick babies, cancer, war, all the madness to end.
I returned because we have the best understanding of the Bible, and I believe we need God's guidance. God doesn't need our worship or thanks, he asks us for it for our own benefit, not his. Everything he is doing is to secure our future. He and Christ will preserve as many as possible, strange that it will take destruction in order to preserve mankind but without it we would do ourselves in eventually.
-and thank you.
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Xanthippe
Will you go on record as stating that all the suffering and dying should continue, and that that is preferable to the death of the already-dying who reject God's rulership?
Death will continue because that is the reality of human life, we all die. As for suffering will you go on record that you are contributing in any way at all to global efforts to prevent suffering? I am.
I can unequivocally learn to cope with the potential deaths of family, colleagues, etc. (again, they are already dying) if it means no more sick babies, cancer, war, all the madness to end.
So they made you give up friends and family in exchange for empty promises, and you fell for it?
God doesn't need our worship or thanks, he asks us for it for our own benefit, not his.
If God doesn't need anything from me then why does your religion insist I follow their rules or be destroyed? If everything is for my benefit why are people rejected for not following the rules to the letter? If God loves us why does he need us all together in a group? Is that the only way he can keep track of everyone?
Xanthippe (dead woman walking)
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Xanthippe
I can unequivocally learn to cope with the potential deaths of family, colleagues, etc. (again, they are already dying) if it means no more sick babies, cancer, war, all the madness to end.
By the way lanalonger I want to ask why will destroying unbelievers stop babies dying or cure cancer?
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Muddy Waters
Question for Rosemarie (from page 1) -- I am curious, what would you say is the "whopping big difference" between "living under the GB's rules & Jesus' rules"...? -
smiddy
God apparently spoke to and visited people in the 1st Century according to the Bible.regarding his puposes and to give instructions for his and Jesus followers .As he has done 4000 years previously with different prophets and faithful men of old , and also some women.
2000 years ago people never had the Scientific knowledge or education we have today , yet for 4000 years previously God had numerous occasions where he communicated with humans and apparently he had no issues back then in doing so , why he even had conversations with Satan the Devil in heaven on occasion as did Jesus Christ .Satan wasn`t shunned at any time,
2000 years ago to the present day we havent seen or heard from our Lord God Jehovah or his glorious son Christ Jesus at all , What is the difference between the first 4000 years and the latter 2000 years , one where he was involved in their affairs to the latter where he is totally silent .not saying yay or nay about anything.
If a human being witnesses a crime or an injustice against anybody/somebody and does nothing about it , how or what do we think about that person .?
If God the Almighty /Jehovah , see`s crimes and injustices against his creation , humans and he does nothing about it , in over Centuries of time , how should we feel about him .?
smiddy
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Rosemarie
Hi Muddy Waters,
First of may I ask if you would like to live under Jesus and his guidelines?
the difference between him and the GB is Jesus said his yoke is light!!!!
The GB s rules and regulations make the yoke very very heavy indeed.
Quiet like the Pharisees of the Sanhedrin....haircuts, clothing...etc...we have been indoctrinated with a sense of unrealistic fear of a ever heightening of what makes us acceptable to Jehovah.....unattainable goals that crushes one and makes one feel unworthy.
These are not The way Of Jesus...we have become just like the Pharisees of old.
He held them accountable for being bad shepards..for not caring for his sheep..and he will do this again.
At this time he is still allowing it..the weeds are in with the wheat..and they are hurting us..
thats why he said those that ENDURE to the end will be saved.
we are being threshed as wheat just as the apostles were..it's a testing time.
i ask you....when in history did Gods People not become corrupted...NEVER...they always did....and he ALWAYS disciplined them.....the Isralites were disciplined as were the Jewish System
He will rescue his sheep...as he always does..but for now...we need to wait on him...just like that small band of Christians did when Jesus was on earth.
i support lanalomger and her sentiments.
Jesus is tender in his affections..and takes a interest in each and every individual that serves him....his load is light....we have yet to experience that....but we will!!!!!
rosemarie
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lanalonger
The present reality of human life is that we all die.
The scriptures under consideration are addressing that, in the promise that the tent of God will cover mankind and death be no more, etc. I see the tent of God covering us as analogous to Paul’s words about God being all things to everyone, 1 Cor 15:28. When we are completely reconciled to God, we will again be undying creations as we were meant to be.
Have I given up friends and family? Not permanently. I know of very few people, and pretty much none of my contemporaries in colleagues, friends, family, whom I would believe are irrevocably wicked, and I trust in Jehovah and Jesus that only the truly wicked have no hope.
Why do we have to follow God’s rules…..
What if from God’s standpoint, the universe is actually just one large ‘something,’ and we are all so intertwined that in order for one person in existence to be reconciled to God, we all must be? What if to him we are really just all one creation with no real borders of separation between us? I mean, we are ‘real’ and sort of solid, but some atoms pass right through us. So that ‘border’ between our skin and the air ceases to exist on some level. What if that is true on the larger scale, that only from our perspective are we separate, but to God we are all the same, not just in equality, but in reality? Sort of each a thread in the tapestry, to make an analogy.
IF that were true, then it would seem to explain why God needs to have all humans in existence harmoniously applying his directives, in order to advance his purposes toward us. The Bible expresses it as being because of God’s holiness, he cannot tolerate the unholy. The scriptures' description, coupling these verses in Revelation and the ones about God becoming ‘all things to everyone’ in Corinthians, seems to me to be that after all with rebellious tendencies are no longer existing, God reunites with the human family in a very special way. It would also mean that God isn’t being capricious in asking us to be ‘fitly united in the same mind’ etc. but that such unity is actually a necessary thing for the blessing of all.
And of course when all humans are reconciled to God, there will be no babies dying or cancer, war, etc.
Hopefully that addressed your points, Xanthippe.
Thank you Rosemarie, my thought regarding the difference between Jesus’ rulership and the Governing Body’s direction, (they would deny they exercise rulership, and so would I, I do wholeheartedly believe they direct us under Christ as their head, he is the Ruler) is that Jesus is perfect and his rulership will be perfect. The Governing Body, if asked, would implore each of us to overlook their imperfections and freely admit they have them. The imperfections of others can sorely test us, but tests of our faith are opportunities and as such can be made a blessing, if we view them in the right way. (That all sounds good too, let me assure all I have often failed in that and many other things.)
God personally doesn’t need anything from us. He’s fine in the realm he inhabits (if that’s even the right word), and he doesn’t ‘need’ us to serve him to be ‘better off’ in any way. Our praise and thanks to him even, are for our own benefit. Do you want your children to be thankful to feed your own ego, or because thankful children are happier and cooperative and that is to their own benefit? I don’t think it is possible to be happy without being grateful, certainly it never worked for me.
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Xanthippe
What if from God’s standpoint, the universe is actually just one large ‘something,’ and we are all so intertwined that in order for one person in existence to be reconciled to God, we all must be? What if to him we are really just all one creation with no real borders of separation between us? I mean, we are ‘real’ and sort of solid, but some atoms pass right through us. So that ‘border’ between our skin and the air ceases to exist on some level. What if that is true on the larger scale, that only from our perspective are we separate, but to God we are all the same, not just in equality, but in reality? Sort of each a thread in the tapestry, to make an analogy.
Interesting, almost Eastern philosophy. It Hot does seem strange though that we have to reach for unusual explanations for why we have to follow God's rules. I would think the obvious answer would be because they make everyone happy and their lives successful. Sadly they don't, so many choose not to follow them because they don't bring happiness to everyone and even make some people very unhappy.
So your explanation that there may be some physical law in the universe that we don't yet know about that means we all have to obey God or the universe won't work and our earth will never be 'right' seems just an excuse when you could more easily say we don't know why we must obey God. Then you would have to ask is the Bible requiring that we do things that God wants or what humans have invented?
Also as people try to be happy you may think that their different needs are causing the problems in the world. Some people want to work for a living for example and others think it's ok to steal. That's what we have laws for. To protect communities from law- breakers we have the criminal justice system.
Some people want peace but others want war. We are trying to frame international laws to deal with this and prevent human rights abuses. Also for the first time an arms treaty has been signed at the UN to try to prevent illegal arms sales.
I also believe we will find a cure for cancer one day and that gene therapy will prevent congenital problems that cause infant deaths. Plus UNICEF continues its efforts in developing countries to vaccinate infants and young children and WATERAID aims to provide clean water globally by 2030 to reduce water born infections that kill babies.