Help finding a video of GB member saying that Jehovah may not really be God's name

by mamacita29 47 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Dunning-Kruger

  Finkelstein said:

  The tradition, which was in effect at the time of the Messiah, of teaching the people that the name “Yahweh” was too sacred to pronounce, and to speak this name was blasphemy...

  Exactly. Parts of the Hebrew scriptures written well before then mention the tetragram, but it disappears from scriptures written around Jesus's time.

  In fact Islam (7th Century and influenced by early Christianity) has a similar stance. Giving God (Allah) a name is blasphemous because it implies other gods exist.

  Also, I note in the Koran, Jesus is effectively pronounced Issa or Essa. It seems to be just an anglicisation to add the "J" to names such as Yahweh, Issa, Ioshua etc. "Jehovah" only starts to appear from around the middle ages.

  I am not sure which point johnamos is trying to make. If johnamos is trying to justify the use of "Jehovah", relying on the NWT "translation" to make his point is just a bootstrap argument. If johnamos is trying to justify the use of "Yahweh", well that term already appears in most, (probably all) bible translations in certain parts of the Hebrew scriptures, anyway.
• 

  johnamos

  an obvious corrupt individual in spinning and twisting scriptures to serve your own means and purpose.

  Do you have any example of what scriptures I spun and twisted???

  Did or did not Jesus say in Matthew 6:9 to let the name be sanctified???

  Did or did not Peter quote from the book of Joel…and what name is found there???

  Was the tradition that started in the refusal to not pronounce the name…was it started by:

  1) Jehovah

  2) Jesus

  3) the apostles

  4) the Jewish leaders

  Do any have any objection to the spelling of the name Yehoshaphat (Jehoshaphat)???

  What # out of 1-5 would you use to fill in the blank???

  Jehoshaphat is said to mean ________ is judge.
  

  1) YHVH/JHVH

  2) YEHO/JEHO

  3) LORD

  4) YEHOVAH/JEHOVAH

  5) YAHWEH

  You must therefore be a JWs I take it then

  I am not nor ever was…if I was one, would I have a website that has questions that are directed to them that in ever one when trying to answer it shows their current understanding is incorrect?

  https://johnamos880.wordpress.com/jehovahs-witnesses/

  If johnamos is trying to justify the use of "Jehovah", relying on the NWT "translation"

  I do support the use of the name JEHOVAH and it has nothing to do with the NWT or some monk.

  If johnamos is trying to justify the use of "Yahweh", well that term already appears in most, (probably all) bible translations

  Again, it is the name JEHOVAH that I am supporting not Yahweh and JEHOVAH can be found in these bible translations and not one of then are the NWT.

  https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Jehovah&qs_version=KJ21

  https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Jehovah&qs_version=ASV

  https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Jehovah&qs_version=BRG

  https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Jehovah&qs_version=DARBY

  https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Jehovah&qs_version=GNV

  https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Jehovah&qs_version=KJV

  https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Jehovah&qs_version=AKJV

  https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Jehovah&qs_version=TLB

  https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Jehovah&qs_version=WYC

  https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Jehovah&qs_version=YLT
• 

  leaving_quietly

  johnamos and others like him are super quick to point out that we say "Jesus" or "Jeremiah" or "Jehosaphat", so why not "Jehovah"? Answer: First, that's called deflection. It is a logical fallacy. Also, because the name of God was the only thing said to be made known. It doesn't matter what we call Jeremiah or Jehosaphat. Those names are not sacred. But the name of God is. Thus, wouldn't using the closest known pronunciation make sense? I would even argue that the name of the Son of God should follow this same idea.

  I would also add that this particular religion exists and their own translation of the Bible exists with a PRIMARY PURPOSE of making God's name known, but in doing so, uses the LEAST ACCURATE pronunciation. Why is that? Because it's widely accepted? YES! Because it's right? NO! (per admission) The issue really isn't the proper pronunciation of the name, but that this particular religion harps on God's name so much, often saying how much the world in general doesn't know it, yet chooses to use a pronunciation simply because it's the most popular. That makes no sense! And, it makes no sense especially considering that this religion generally chooses the least popular courses of actions in everyday matters (e.g. celebrating birthdays, Christmas, taking blood transfusions, etc.) So, why not take the least popular, but most accurate course of action with pronouncing God's name?
• 

  BluesBrother

  Have to say that I do not see the issue here. Any dub with experience will tell you that the name is pronounced Jehovah but that is just an attempt , based on the YHWH or JHVH. We used to be told that all Bible names were anglicised and would have been different originally .

  They say that as long as "The Name" is recognized, that is what matters.

  So dubs will not be impressed .
• 

  leaving_quietly

  @johnamos, I noted that you said you were not a JW. Regarding the pronunciation, why DO you prefer Jehovah over Yahweh? (I would even say, maybe, Yahveh.) The "J" has a "Y" sound and from what I've read, there isn't a "W" sound in Hebrew, but is instead a "V" sound. Thus, phonetically, Yahveh seems to come closest.

  So with vowels E, O, and A in use in these Hebrew names and given the fact of what these names are said to mean, it seems very reasonable that these same vowels would be inserted in the Tetragrammaton-YHVH.

  Seems reasonable, doesn't it? Then why DOESN'T the Tetragrammaton have those in there to begin with? Makes one think that if it's reasonable, then maybe they should be there in the first place, otherwise, is it really reasonable?

  The other reasoning is the shortened form of the name, yāh (e.g. as found at Ps 102:18) lends itself more to the "Yahweh" or "Yahveh" pronunciation of the entire name of God. The shortened form is not "Jeh" or "Yeh". So, by us inserting vowels in there just because other names contain those vowels seems to not follow the shortened form. These two lines of reasoning seem to be in conflict.

  As far as making God's name known, I believe that has more to do with making the character of God known, what his name represents, than his actual name.
  
• 

  leaving_quietly

  So dubs will not be impressed .

  I definitely agree with that synopsis, @BluesBrother. Of course, they are conditioned to feel this way because that's what WTBTS has said for years and years and years. And we tend to make a much bigger deal of this than we should, I admit. Why is that, though? Is it because we always want to be the polar opposite of anything WTBTS says? Perhaps. Sometimes we make mountains out of molehills.

  I wanted to say that my personal view is that God knows who he is. My beef with this topic is not about the name. It's about the hypocrisy of the religion that claims to be the only true religion that represents the only true God and restores his name to the Bible. Yet, they knowingly use the least accurate name out there. That, to me, is hypocrisy.
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  Johnamos

  Isaiah 29:13 And Jehovah says: “For the reason that this people have come near with their mouth, and they have glorified me merely with their lips, and they have removed their heart itself far away from me, and their fear toward me becomes men’s commandment that is being taught,

  Jesus reiterated this sentiment speaking of the Pharisees when he said, 'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME. 9'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.'"

  Reminds me of a group that banned on threat of disfellowship:

  a. vaccinations as a breaking of God's everlasting covenant from 1931 to 1952

  b. organ transplants from 1967 to 1980

  c. blood clotting fractions such as factors VII, VIII and IX

  Its the same group that taught germs never caused any disease.

  Ya-ho-vah' calls such religions vain.
  
• 

  Mad Irishman

  Some of you really have no reading or listening comprehension. For people who are always clamoring for the truth.

  He said: the exact pro·nun·ci·a·tion is not known. Pro·nun·ci·a·tion. Let's all say it together now. The exact pronunciation of God's name is not known. It never has been. No one in history ever said it was. Jehovah's Witnesses never said they knew. Never. Did you guys even study when you were witnesses?

  Have any of you even read a book? Went to college perhaps? Know anything about American and English history? YHWH is God's name. They didn't use vowels in Hebrew, so no one knows the original pronunciation of YHWH, because we don't know the exact vowels. Educated men came up with Yahweh from their study of ancient Hebrew. Jehovah is the English version of Yahweh. The founding fathers of our country, the United State of America, used Jehovah. I'm not talking about Thomas Jefferson or George Washington, although they used Jehovah too. I'm talking about William Bradford from the Mayflower. Have any of you ever read his dairies? How about the founder of Rhode Island Roger Williams? Have you ever read his books? The pilgrims and the settlers at Plymouth and all the first settlers of this country from Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut and New York. They all used Jehovah as God's name. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  Some you you have let your hatred rot your brain out from reality, history, and common sense. Jehovah is the English translation of YHWH. Before the 20th Century all Christians of every faith used Jehovah as the English name for God. It isn't a witness thing!

  
  
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  You don't have to mention a personal name to honor your father's name. God arranged for His personal name to be unknown from the OT and absent from the NT for a reason.
• 

  leaving_quietly

  He said: the exact pro·nun·ci·a·tion is not known. Pro·nun·ci·a·tion. Let's all say it together now. The exact pronunciation of God's name is not known. It never has been. No one in history ever said it was. Jehovah's Witnesses never said they knew. Never. Did you guys even study when you were witnesses?

  You are correct. I, for one, am not arguing that point.

  IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  It has everything to do with Jehovah's Witnesses, since they make such a big deal out of it, and since they have boasted about restoring God's name to the Bible nearly 7000 times. I find it hypocritical (maybe that's a bit harsh... how about ironic) that they go to such great lengths to restore the name, but then only use a translation of it. Other names they don't translate to English. They transliterate many names, such as Methuselah, Lamech, Gomer, etc. Why not transliterate God's name? Per the appendix in the NWT, the transliteration would end up being Yahweh as the closest on agreed on by most scholars. Why not that?
  

  Some you you have let your hatred rot your brain out from reality, history, and common sense.

  I have no hatred in this matter. I'm just enjoying the discussion on the opposite side of this argument. I personally use the name Jehovah because it's familiar and because it is better known among people who I socialize with on occasion. I would prefer Yahveh, to be honest, but I'm not hung up on it.
  

  Jehovah is the English translation of YHWH.

  No one is arguing that. There is an bit of an irony here. We, as English speaking people, don't call people from Mexico named Miguel Michael or Juan John or Jose Joe. We call them Miguel and Juan and Jose. This is respect for their given names. Wouldn't God deserve the same respect? Shouldn't we use the name that is closest in the original language?
  
  

  Before the 20th Century all Christians of every faith used Jehovah as the English name for God. It isn't a witness thing!

  This is news to me. You're saying in 1899, all denominations of Christianity used "Jehovah"? Then in 1900, they suddenly stopped? I hadn't heard that before. Learn something new every day.