Is the FACT that no God/god ever communicates with humans evidence that no God/god exists?

by Disillusioned JW 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    I think this world and it's people have wasted too much time with this religion and god nonsense. It's a pity we as a world, can't just get on with life and each other.

    Yes. I know it's never going to happen. People are flawed.

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    I think that Schellenberg's idea of the meaning the word "God" with a capital "G" is one which has the core characteristics of what Christian theologians consider the Christian God to have. Philosophers in their writings about whether or not God exists seem to be fixated on that kind God, and give very little consideration to the idea of a God who is not all-knowing or or not all-powerful or one who is evil. They also seem to give no consideration to the idea that polytheistic types of gods might exist.

    Regarding the point of "It is more related to evidence for your dissatisfaction in how he may or may not communicate with you personally" my title of the topic thread claimed "no God/god ever communicates with humans" and my post claimed "no God/god ever communicates with us". By "us" I meant all humans, not just some humans. I was thus not merely claiming that God never never communicated with me, but rather was broadly saying that God never communicated with any human.

    I know that the Bible and other religious scriptures and other books say God (of some kind) has communicated with some people. I also know that many people claim that God (of some kind) has communicated to them personally, but I see no proof of such, no convincing evidence of such. Parapsychologists have not conclusively demonstrated any person as having received communication from any alleged spirit being. People who have claimed to gone to heaven (while being clinically dead or near death) have not provided any scientifically testable information which proves to be kind which only a supernatural being could provide to them. By that I mean such as unambiguous detailed precise descriptions of extraordinary future events, or of extraordinary scientific knowledge (which was not discovered prior to the prediction but which was later confirmed by science to be true), or of unambiguous detailed descriptions of things buried thousands of years ago in a specific location which had not been discovered prior to the prediction but which scientists could later discover.

    Regarding what pistolpete said about those believe God exists and those who believe God doesn't exist, I see much truth in that. For example, in my conversations of those who have a strong conviction that God and or other spirits exist, they sincerely (as far as I can tell) claim to have personally heard or seen God or an other spirit or to have at least had their prayer requests answered/granted, whereas I disbelieve I ever experienced such. Likewise those who strongly believe in supernatural (such as ghosts and demons interacting on Earth with people) or the paranormal, or an afterlife or out of body experience, sincerely (as far as I can tell) claim to have personally such, whereas I disbelieve I ever experienced such.

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    Correction: Where I said 'Parapsychologists have not conclusively demonstrated ..." I probably should have said "Investigators of alleged spirit mediums and of alleged spirits have not conclusively demonstrated ..." Parapsychologists seek evidence of ESP instead and they use the scientific method in their experiments.

    Corrections: In my last paragraph of my prior post I meant to say the following.

    Regarding what pistolpete said about those believe who God exists and those who believe God doesn't exist, I see much truth in that. For example, in my conversations of those who have a strong conviction that God and/or other spirits exist, they sincerely (as far as I can tell) claim to have personally heard or seen God or an other spirit or to have at least had their prayer requests answered/granted, whereas I disbelieve I ever experienced such. Likewise those who strongly believe in the supernatural (such as ghosts and demons interacting on Earth with people) or the paranormal, or an afterlife or an out of body experience, sincerely (as far as I can tell) claim to have personally experienced such, whereas I disbelieve I ever experienced such.

  • FedUpJW
    FedUpJW

    Is the FACT that no God/god ever communicates with us evidence that no God/god exists?

    I would have to answer "No" to that question. I do feel though that IF there is in fact a God, he just doesn't give a GOD damn about us humans.

  • PaddyTheBaddy
    PaddyTheBaddy
    I think that Schellenberg's idea of the meaning the word "God" with a capital "G" is one which has the core characteristics of what Christian theologians consider the Christian God to have. Philosophers in their writings about whether or not God exists seem to be fixated on that kind God, and give very little consideration to the idea of a God who is not all-knowing or or not all-powerful or one who is evil. They also seem to give no consideration to the idea that polytheistic types of gods might exist.

    I agree that this is how most philosophers depict God. The reasons for which are independent of anything the bible has to say about God. The bible just happens to describe God in similar terms.

    Still all you can claim is because you haven't been personally convinced of God's love for mankind, despite the christian claim that he died for mankind, you don't believe he exists. It is not that there isn't any evidence, it is more that the evidence people use doesn't convince you.

    These guys below would argue that the defeat and withdrawal, of the mightiest military force on planet earth, from their holy land, is evidence of God communicating his support for their Jihad.

    https://www.adnkronos.com/resources/026c-1320d6ac18c3-7bba6b77e120-1000/format/medium/talebani_portavoce_aeroporto_afp.jpg

    If God is all powerful, all knowing and all evil it would solve your problem of why he seems to be a crummy communicator and thankfully so. However, It would leave you with a different set of problems, which is why many philosophers don't characterise God as evil, as you pointed out.

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    punkofnice, I agree with your statement of "... people have wasted too much time with this religion and god nonsense". I also think it is a pity and I strongly wish human society to would abandon it. Consider the following extreme example of religious-like thinking and superstitious thinking.

    Yesterday a person whom I have personally known for at least four years tried to convince me that the Earth is a plane in the sense of being flat. He said it is not a sphere and not existing out in space. I asked him if he thinks it is a least a round in the sense of being a circle (since it casts a circular shadow on the moon) and I asked him if he thinks it is at least a planet. In reply he stressed the distinction of the word "plane" not ending in the letter "t' (as in the word "planet"). Furthermore, he asked me if anyone has ever proven the Earth is a sphere by means of directly physically measuring the alleged curvature of the Earth. He offered me a small handout, which he wrote, promoting the flat Earth idea (and I suspect it had a link to website about the topic). In prior conversations he told me he has a health problem caused by his genetics which he says requires him (in order to have optimal health) to have a diet that is nearly 100% meat.

    In a prior conversation he told me he used to be a Mormon (and was briefly an atheist after ceasing to be a Mormon; I first met him when he was an atheist) and that he believes in immortal life and that some kind of God exists (but not the biblical God). Soon after he ceased being an atheist he tried to convince me (using scientific knowledge about brainwaves and energy) that the consciousness (soul) of humans continues to exist after the human body dies; he also tried to convince me to stop being an atheist. Though he now believes in evolution (at least to some extent) he is convinced that extraterrestrial beings created Humans by genetically modifying life (apes or australopithecines?) which had had already existed on Earth, and I think I recall him saying the aliens made humans to serve as slaves to the aliens (to mine for something which they needed and I think he said it was for gold). He said that the ancient humans thought the extraterrestrial aliens were gods, and I think he has spoken of those aliens as the creators. Furthermore, he says the story in the Sci-Fi movie called "Prometheus" is very close to the fact of how humans came into existence.

    He has also told me the following: some people on Earth are reptilians - including Hillary Clinton; humans are not contributing in a major way to climate change (and global warming) and that no drastic dangerous climate change is taking place and that rising levels of CO2 in Earth's atmosphere are not going to be a danger; he believes that a number of UFO sightings are of actual extraterrestrial spacecraft; he says the aliens believe in pantheism, but he doesn't seem to believe in pantheism.

    He voted for Trump in 2016 and back in 2016 he tried to convince me to vote for Trump.

    He also voted for Trump in 2020, but he is socially liberal and uses marijuana. One time at his home he showed me a vaporizer he used and I think one time he offered some marijuana to me (if so I declined the offer). I think he is fiscally conservative and a libertarian Republican. One time he showed me a portion of a pistol and invited me to touch it (I refused to do so).

    Despite not being convinced of climate change (in the sense of it being a dangerous trend), he likes electric cars and when I saw him yesterday he was showing me his Chevrolet Volt all-electric battery powered car which he bought used. I think he said he bought it when it had about 100,000 miles on it. He said it has a 200,000 mile warranty on the battery pack, but that the manufacturers of electric cars don't know how long the battery packs will last, and that it might last 300,000 miles. He mentioned that buying a used electric car that is a certain number of years old is more cost effective in the long run than buying a gasoline powered car. When it comes to electric cars I also like them (compared to fossil fuel combustion engine cars) but I have yet to own one.

  • redvip2000
    redvip2000
    Is the FACT that no God/god ever communicates with us evidence that no God/god exists?

    Not really. If can also mean he doens't give a shit about us. In either case, why should we can about a god that either doesn't exist, or doesn't care to do a single helpful thing to help anybody ever?

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    redvip2000, I say we should not care about a god that either doesn't exist, or doesn't ever intervene in human lives (and who doesn't provide an afterlife or intervene in an afterlife). But I do care if other people believe a personal god (or other spirit) exists, for such beliefs hinder the progress of human society.

  • PaddyTheBaddy
    PaddyTheBaddy
    But I do care if other people believe a personal god (or other spirit) exists, for such beliefs hinder the progress of human society.
    Which is why if you had 30 minutes to convince this guy not to fly a plan into a building, I doubt you would use the argument from divine hiddenness to persuade him.

    https://static.dw.com/image/198087_4.jpg

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    DissyJW.

    Your associate has just bought into the religion of conspiracy.

    I suppose it makes them feel better and special that they know all this hidden knowledge.

    Same as this tribal religion nonsense.

    There is not a face-palm big enough to express how it all makes me feel.

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