a question after my first JW meeting

by bleak 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • bleak

    I attended my first JW meeting recently. First, I would like to say what I agree with about the Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs and practices.

    1. They don't consider israeli's as "God's chosen people" and they don't worship israel as some holy land filled with righteous Jews (although there are some there) as most so-called "Christians" (Christian zionists) erroneously believe they are instead of the "hypocrites" and "vipers" that it is actually filled with.

    2. They don't celebrate "holidays" like Easter and Christmas which are, in fact, remnants of earlier pagan practices.

    3. They don't put nation before God and Christ. They don't believe in war or going to war because of some crazy government/CIA secret agenda. They may not consciously teach about the secret agendas but maybe some have a clue.

    4. They know their Bibles. I don't think anyone can dispute this. How they interpret different parts of the Bible is another matter.

    Now for my question...

    1. Why do they seem to take some parts/passages of the Bible literally and others figuratively? For example, they believe that Christ said, "He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword." (Matthew 26:52), then why not practice what Christ said about what clothing we should wear? Did He say "That is why I say to you, stop being anxious about your lives as to what you will eat or about your bodies as to what you will wear?" (Luke 12:22) or didn't he? If He did then what's with the suits?

    I asked one guy about this and he said "we want to present ourselves like we would in front of a judge in court." A judge? I guess he meant the charlatans in black robes who may or may not pretend to choose to "judge righeously" (John 7:24) and may or may not dole out the punishment in proportion to the "crime" (Luke 6:38). I said "as long as it isn't a prerequisite" and he said it actually was a prequisite but they basically tolerated people who had to work up to the suit. He did tell me about a good second hand store where I could get a cheap suit but I hate those places.

    Anyway, out of the three guys I talked to, none of them looked me in the eyes as they were talking. That may be because I'm ugly to them; I don't know. Just an observation. I'm debating whether or not to go back and trying not pass judgement too quickly because mine is prone to error as well.

  • cofty
    I would like to say what I agree with about the Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs and practices

    ...and Mussolini made the trains run on time.

  • Londo111

    They know about 50 or so isolated verses of the Bible as prooftexts. Most of this is out of context.

    What they believe is mandated by the Governing Body and they cannot variate for this, or else they will be disfellowshiped for apostasy and shunned by friends and family. And since they are not supposed to make friendships with non-JWs (the world), that means losing everyone they know. If you continue down this path, they will slowly encourage you to distance yourself from any friends you have.

    Anyway, the Governing Body teaches that they are the Faithful and Discreet Slave on Matthew 24:45, the sole channel appointed by Jesus to give "spiritual food". One's spiritual health and relationship with God is dependent on recognizing them as the Faithful Slave. Christ is said to appointed this Faithful Slave in the year 1919, a few years after his invisible Presence began in 1914.

    If you don't believe any of this, you will be destroyed for all eternity at Armagedom.

    What do you think about their beliefs now?

  • lriddle80

    💯 accurate Londo111!

  • pale.emperor

    Two words for you...

    Check JWFacts.com

  • Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
    Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

    @bleak To see just how well Jehovah's Witnesses, I suggest listening in to the many phone calls this woman makes to Kingdom Halls or the JW headquarters and hear them flounder:


    It's a bit disappointing and eerie to hear how programmed and switchboard-y these guys are when questioned about very important, yet basic, scriptures.

    You may also find useful this list of questions a user named @Vanderhoven7 on this forum has put together on just how unscriptural and (oftentimes) ludicrous the man-made religious movement of Jehovah's Witnesses truly is:

    "1. Is it biblical to say the sounding of the 7 trumpets introduced in Revelation 8: 1-7 got underway at a Bible Student convention in Cedar Point, Ohio in 1922? Is this fact found in the Bible? (so speculation???)

    When the sounding of the seven trumpets got under way in 1922, the Bible Student convention at Cedar Point, Ohio, (Rev.8:7) featured a talk by the president of the Watchtower Society, J. F Rutherford, based on the scripture, ”The Kingdom of Heaven is at Hand.” Revelation Its Grand Climax at Hand. p. 172

    2. Is it biblical to say that the 144,000 were numerically complete in 1935? (No we don't believe that anymore). But you taught that for over 70 years till 2007! (so speculation???)

    'Logically, the calling of the little flock would draw to a close when the number was nearing completion, and the evidence is that the general gathering of these specially blessed ones ended in 1935.' (Watchtower 1995 Feb 15 p.19)

    3. Is it biblical to say that the Great Crowd of Revelation 7 was forming in 1935?

    How do you know this? Is 1935 in the Bible? How was this information conveyed? How old are those conventioneers today...if the average age was 20 back then? How many have died not going through the tribulation?

    The Watchtower had expressed the hope that a convention scheduled for May 30 to June 3, 1935, in Washington, D.C., U.S.A., would be “a real comfort and benefit” to those pictured by Jehonadab. And that it proved to be! In a stirring talk on “The Great Multitude,” delivered to about 20,000 conventioneers, J. F. Rutherford ... declared: “Behold! The great multitude!” There was a hush, followed by loud cheering.” Watchtower May 1, 2001 pp.14-15 “Behold! The Great Crowd"

    4. Is it biblical to say that the apostle Peter ascended to heaven in the spring of 1918? (???) Is 1918 a biblical date? How do you know this? (so speculation???)

    'In 1918 he (the apostle Peter) was resurrected to the heavens along with the other faithful members of Christ’s congregation who had died prior to that time.' WT Feb. 15, 1966 p. 123 Does Peter Now Use the Keys of the Kingdom?

    5. Is it biblical to say that Jesus Christ concluded an investigative judgment in the fall of 1918?

    Did that judgment result in Jesus rejecting every church on earth with the exception of your organization? (???)

    How do you know this? Is this in the Bible?

    'When Jesus came to God’s spiritual temple in 1918 for the purpose of judging men, Christendom was rejected.' The Watchtower, August 1, 1960, p. 462

    6. Is it biblical to say that Jesus Christ appointed a Faithful and Discrete Slave at headquarters in Brooklyn New York in 1919? (???) How do you know this? Is this in the Bible? What were the names of those original selected ones? On what grounds were they selected? Do you know what the Bible Students were teaching and practicing in 1919?

    'On arriving’ to inspect the slave in 1918, Christ found a spirit-anointed remnant of faithful disciples who since 1879 had been using this journal [the Watchtower] and other Bible-based publications to provide spiritual "food at the proper time." He acknowledged them as his collective instrument, or "slave," and in 1919 entrusted them with the management of all his earthly belongings.' Watchtower 2007 Apr 1 p.22

    7. Is it biblical to say that people who saw the events of 1914 will be around to witness the introduction of a new system of things... and that God promised this?

    'Most importantly, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new order before the generation that saw the events of 1914 C.E. passes away.' Awake Masthead 1982 – 1995

    How could the 1914 generation logically be the the generation that does not pass away when the youngest of that generation are 103 or older today?

    8. Is it biblical to say that God will destroy billions of people at Armageddon who do not believe that the organization of JWs is God's channel of communication and that it's leaders in New York collectively represent the Faithful and Discrete Slave Jesus spoke about?

    'Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd", as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.' (Watchtower, September 1, 1989 p. 19)"

  • Vanderhoven7
    First, I would like to say what I agree with about the Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs and practices.

    Well I would like to say that i disagree with every doctrine that is unique to Jehovah's Witnesses including:

    1. that 99.9% of the worlds population will be destroyed at Armageddon (everyone who is not a JW)

    2. that blood transfusions are sinful based on Acts 15 and a disfellowship issue.

    3. that members, including family members are to be shunned if they change their minds about the leaders in New York...and that if you don't shun them as directed you too will be disfellowshipped and shunned.

    4. that allegations of child sexual abuse are not to be reported to police, but to elders only, who can not act unless there are at least 2 witnesses to the offence. (protecting pedophiles rather than children)

    the list goes on and on.

  • Ding

    If you decide to become a JW, you won't be allowed to ask questions like the ones you posed here.

    Likewise, you won't be allowed to visit this website (unless you hide what you're doing).

    Please think long and hard before you allow a group of men in New York have that kind of control over your life.

  • moreconfusedthanever

    1. They consider themselves God's chosen people and only the JWs who attend the Kingdom Hall will survive Armageddon. 99.9% of the world's population are marked for destruction.

    2. Easter and Christmas are out due to pagan links but wedding rings and shunning are acceptable even though pagan links exist.

    3. Their Governing Body put themselves between you and God and Christ. No mention of a GB or faithful and discreet slave in John 14:6

    4. Yes and they edit their Bible's to fit their control on the flock. See Micah 6:8 for example.

    They pick and choose which bits are figurative or literal according to their current doctrine and how it best served to control the flock and keep them in the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt)

    It is a prerequisite to think and act and look exactly as they say. Appearing before judges has nothing to do with it. Have you watched Judge Judy?

    Until recently men were not allowed to have beards even though the good Lord gave them facial hair. Now they have an issue with tight pants. Ask them where these things are in their bible?

  • sparrowdown

    Your first meeting and he tells you where you can buy a suit!?- if that doesn't raise a red flag nothing will.

    When it comes to religion you should be more critical not less as you are relying on arbitrary interpretation of ancient writings, musings, allegories and stories.

    Beware of love bombing. Do not check your brain at the door. Pay attention to what is really being said. Ask plenty of questions and do NOT be satisfied with answers that fob you off or do not make sense.

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