why jw's commit suicide?

by notalone 149 Replies latest jw friends

  • Ruby456
    Ruby456

    i don't have Furuli's paper in front of me so I cannot comment on your analysis. However, it is interesting that Furuli's research chimes with evidence I shared so I would be interested in getting a copy of his research. do you have a link?

    re this below I would like to see the data he mentions too as this may be data he rejects as flawed?

    Also, his own data sometimes indicates that mental health issues are higher among JWs than among the general population. For example, he writes: jp
    If we use this number, the rate of admission to mental hospitals is 2.60 per 1000 among the Witnesses compared with 2.54 in the normal population; the rate of schizophrenia is 1.15 among the Witnesses and 0.61 in the normal population; the rate of paranoid schizophrenia is 0.88 among the Witnesses and 0.38 in the normal population (2015, p. 5). furuli
  • jp1692
    jp1692

    Correction to my previous post:

    I wrote that the early draft of Furuli's paper, “The Mental Health of Jehovah’s Witnesses” was submitted for the 2015 CENSUR conference in Belgium.

    The copy I have of his paper bears the copyright notice “© Rolf J. Furuli 2015,” but the conference was actually in 2016, April 21-22.

    Also, CENSUR was apparently only one of the partners/sponsors, the main one being The European Observatory of Religion and Secularism.

    Here is a link to a flyer showing the conference schedule of presentations and speakers:

    As far as I can determine, a final draft of Furuli’s paper was never published formally, although it may be available as part of the Subsidia III collection of conference papers.

    If someone has information to the contrary I would appreciate knowing about it.


  • jp1692
    jp1692
    Ruby: i don't have Furuli's paper in front of me so I cannot comment on your analysis.

    Sure you can. Read the direct quotes I posted, my analysis and then comment. If you want to do more, then try and track down a copy of the paper and read it (see my post above).

    Ruby:I would like to see the data he mentions too as this may be data he rejects as flawed

    The data you reposted immediately above are Furuli's "research" findings. It is what HE reported. He didn't like it though because it doesn't agree with is worldview. It's called cognitive dissonance.

    Ruby: it is interesting that Furuli's research chimes with evidence I shared

    That's not surprising to me. It's called confirmation bias.






  • Ruby456
    Ruby456

    nope it is called keeping an open mind and allowing as many scholars as poss to weigh in.

    I have already looked at the sites you mention but was not able to find anything. I prefer to stick with scholars who are cited often by other scholars - Atran, Iannaccone and a couple of others whom I have not been able to bring into the discussion as yet.

  • jp1692
    jp1692

    Ruby, although Furuli is definitely a scholar by most academic standards, his field of expertise is Semitic languages, not psychology. He is also well known for being a rabid JW apologist:

    Based on his studies, Furuli has attempted to defend the religious views of Jehovah's Witnesses—of which Furuli is a member—including their view that Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians in 607 BC rather than the broadly recognised dating of its destruction in 587 BC. - Rolf Furuli

    His bias and lack of objectivity is obvious in everything he writes concerning JWs.

  • Ruby456
    Ruby456

    that may be so but I am only accepting what he says because I have verified these things from others who have never been JWs. Eileen Barker for example. She does sympathise with the non witness families of Jehovah's witnesses and acknowledges how hard it must be for them.

    thern there is James Penton - he has been a witnesss.

    great link here for those who may be struggling

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10943-014-9946-8

  • jp1692
    jp1692

    What do Eilleen Barker or James Penton have to say on the subject of relevance?

    It's really tiresome that you throw out these vague assertions and generalizations with no evidence. Every time, and I mean EVERY SINGLE TIME, I have chased down one of your leads I get they same result: they do NOT say what you say and they do not support your assertions.

  • Ruby456
    Ruby456

    jp1692

    you are welcome to disagree

    another great link here which also mentions Hasan

    Faulkner, M. J. (2009). Ritual of separation: An integrative guideline for helping clients from high-intensity faith groups. Cultic Studies Review, 8(1), 16–42.

  • jp1692
    jp1692

    Ruby, you added the link to Friedson's paper, "Psychotherapy and the Fundamentalist Client," after I submitted my previous post.

    That is an excellent paper on the subject and she does discuss Jehovah's Witnesses directly in the context of fundamentalist, high-demand/control groups. A key component of her over-all thesis is that Jehovah's Witnesses as well all "Fundamentalists who experience psychological distress may hesitate to obtain help from the mental health community."

    This is a very real and serious problem.

    However, Friedson only addresses suicide in reference to current and ex-members that are dealing with gender and sexuality issues. She does not discuss it among these people in general. Nevertheless, her research is solid and her conclusions informative.

    She writes that the "psychological consequences of such attempts to deny one’s self are dire" and (citing Lalich and McLaren, 2010, p. 1311 ) "increase the potential for self-destructive behaviors, such as alcoholism, drug use, and suicide" (2015, p. 700). - [Emphasis added]

    It should be noted that Friedson's work is directed toward educating mental health professionals about helping former members of fundamentalist, high-control groups and was not written with the purpose of educating people dealing with those issues or directly helping them. At the time she wrote this paper, she was a doctoral candidate in the clinical psychology program at the Derner Institute for Advanced Psychological Studies at Adelphi University.

    Consider this caution she shares with her intended audience, therapists and clinical psychologists:

    Therapists who were not raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses may view their patients through their own personal biases; some may see many of the practices and teachings as extreme, contradictory, irrational, and/or unhealthy. The temptation may be to try to refute beliefs that are offensive and/or detrimental (2015, p. 710).

    One of Friedson's goals is to create a therapeutic alliance with the patient, an approach which she describes as “culturally sensitive psychotherapeutic interventions” (2015, p. 711).

    But to bring this back to the point of the OP, the relevant part of Friedson's work is that a fundamentalist mindset can lead to extreme emotional distress thereby inducing mental disorders such as anxiety and depression, and that the religious pressure to deny self can cause some individuals to become suicidal.

    Her purpose in writing was to help therapists not familiar with fundamentalist belief systems treat ex-members suffering from these emotional and mental illnesses, to help them recover and find relief--primarily through cognitive behavioral therapeutic approaches to psychotherapy.

    Again, this is not a paper intended for the general public and especially not for someone feeling suicidal.

    (FYI: Friedson does not mention or reference Hassan in this paper).

  • Ruby456
    Ruby456

    jp

    Again, this is not a paper intended for the general public and especially not for someone feeling suicidal.

    actually this is what notalone asked (bold mine). So you please stop trying to take charge

    We all know the rate of suicide is high among jw's. My question is this- was there some subliminal messages that encourage this. I was a born in and my entire life I would have these thoughts that could come out of nowhere,"kill yourself." I have worked hard and they are far less frequent but every once in a while it would hit. I have professionals that I can go to, that is not what I am seeking. I just have this nagging thought that I am missing something. I grew up with the pink great teacher book, in fact I had some stories memorized. My mother would often add to story 7, 'obedience protects you' that the ones who stayed ate their children and that if I had lived in ancient Israel that I would have been stoned to death.I am just wondering if anyone else may be aware of something else.

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