Columbus Circle monument could be next statue to go

by freemindfade 79 Replies latest social current

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  never a jw

  • "Why [MLK]?"

  Because it's not just a matter of deeds. It's intentions that matter even more. Columbus was not interested in spreading freedom and equality for all. Such idea didn't exist yet in his time. MLK advocated and defended precisely that, freedom and equality for all.

  • "He was a Republican"

  David Duke and Richard Spencer are Republicans too. Therefore what
  

  • "His deeds were related to a US segment of the population"

  Yes, a segment of the population that has been screwed since time immemorial. Columbus affected the entire world, mainly the segment of the population was already at the top of the heap and open the doors to that group to intensify the use of black slaves. Columbus helped indirectly with the abuse and exploitation of the segment of the population that MLK helped in their final quest for true freedom and equality.
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  hothabanero

  All this "Columbus was a bad person" crap assumes the Indians were nice to begin with. In reality, Native Americans were bloodthirsty savages constantly engaged in civil war and torture, just look at the Mayans or the Incas to get a feeling of how bad it really was.

  It may not be PC, but on average human life improved in North America after Columbus, and if we don't care about skin color thats all that should matter.
• 

  Hecce

  No mas, no mas
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  never a jw

  "All this "Columbus was a bad person" crap assumes the Indians were nice to begin with"

  I don't think I have made a single reference to Columbus being bad. It's up to the people in his time and place to make that call (Europe 15th century); same goes for the Indians. All I am saying is that he is overrated in a time where great ideas matter more than navigation skills.
  
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  Simon

  Because it's not just a matter of deeds. It's intentions that matter even more. Columbus was not interested in spreading freedom and equality for all. Such idea didn't exist yet in his time. MLK advocated and defended precisely that, freedom and equality for all.

  Did he include gay marriage? If not, then he didn't advocate for freedom and equality for all.

  Maybe he was just a product of his time and upbringing eh?!
  
  
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  hothabanero

  @never a JW: Fair enough but I would say this:

  I'd bet if you examine it historically, the Indians there are statues of a lot worse than Columbus in terms of human rights.

  So maybe the SJWs should think about pulling down statues of Indians lol!
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  Simon

  All this "Columbus was a bad person" crap assumes the Indians were nice to begin with. In reality, Native Americans were bloodthirsty savages constantly engaged in civil war and torture, just look at the Mayans or the Incas to get a feeling of how bad it really was.

  Our kids get fed up of social studies as every year they always learn the same history - Native Americans (and apparently they want to increase it). Of all the periods of history and people in the world, it's hard to think of a less interesting bunch of people who as you say were often warring with each other, taking slaves, you name it.

  Their civilization lost - I feel bad for people who suffered injustice but not for the culture. What did it produce? Where are the accomplishments? Where are the achievements?
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  never a jw

  "It may not be PC, but on average human life improved in North America after Columbus"

  Yes every European settler's human life improved. Unfortunately, the lives of those that were abused and killed by those settlers can't make that claim.

  Believe me, I don't have an issue with history as it unfolded. I am not Indian, nor European. I am a mixture of Middle Eastern, Spaniard and American Indian. And I don't give a f*&k about any ancestry. What troubles me is the Eurocentric narrative of history of the American continent.
  
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  Simon

  Newsflash: everyone alive today, you included, is more than not likely descended from some victors of some conflict at some time or another, possibly more than one.
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  hothabanero

  @Simon: That is so true! All this crap goes back to the myth of the "Noble savage". Every sociologist who has ever tried to go into the jungle to prove there was such a thing has either had to falsify his data or face expulsion when his science failed to back up the orthodoxy amongst his left-wing peers.

  If you look at the Incas, their society was hell, living humans being cut open and all. If the Spanish had only destroyed their society, killed their nobles, and taken their gold they should have been hailed as heroes freeing an oppressed people!