False members numbers

by asp59 42 Replies latest jw experiences

  • asp59

    Is watchtower faking there member numbers? I live in Europe. For the last 15 year's probably 25 person i knew or more were DF, pimo, left by own will, inactive. And numbers growing. I never meet anyone new from district. There most be much less members in org now then 15 year's ago. Maeby they lying about the numbers and claim it's spiritual warfare.

  • EverApostate

    I had been out of the cult since 11 years and truly don’t know what’s happening inside.

    When the numbers really go down to an alarming level, the cult would say that Jah is shaking the loose leaves of the trees in preparation of Armageddon. (I think there is a Bible verse on this)

    If the Numbers go up, they would say its Jahs blessing and Armageddon is fast approaching. (There are numerous bible verses for this too)

  • St George of England
    St George of England

    Four years ago we had a congregation with just on 100 active publishers. I have no idea how many report now but our meeting attendance, even with ZOOM is rarely above 50. There is a malaise even among the elders, trying to get people to answer is like getting blood out of a stone.


  • mickbobcat

    Never ever buy what ever shit the cult is selling. I don't believe any of the numbers they put out.

  • slimboyfat

    Watchtower has managed to squeeze a little extra out of the publisher numbers in the past couple of decades by including older and infirm JWs, counting their time in 15 minute instalments, and by reminding people to turn in their reports regularly. It has been known for elders to fill in a report on behalf of a publisher on the basis that they probably did some preaching and forgot to report. The key figure to keep an eye on is the number of congregations. That number has declined in recent years in places such as the United States, Germany and Japan, but in many other places is holding steady.

    At the same time, I think it’s only fair to acknowledge that JWs have done a much better job at retaining members than most other religious groups. They don’t get a lot of cold converts from the outside these days, but there remains a steady trickle of inactive people who return or relatives and long term contacts who decide to join after spending many years on the periphery.

    From my observation, attendance at meetings has gone up during the pandemic because a number of inactive people have returned to the Zoom meetings and because publishers attend Zoom meetings more regularly than they attended the Kingdom Hall in person. Attendance has gone up even despite the fact that a significant number of JWs have died during the pandemic due to the coronavirus and other health issues.

    The big question is, what will happen to attendance numbers when JWs return to Kingdom Halls? There are inactive people who attend on Zoom who I don’t expect to turn up at the Kingdom Hall. There are some who are now a couple of years older and may not wish to travel into the Kingdom Hall any more.

    I suspect numbers might fall significantly. And I suspect Watchtower fear this themselves, and I wonder how they will go about managing the return. Will they continue to provide meetings on Zoom for those who don’t wish to attend in person? It seems they plan to do this for a while, but for how long? Will people continue to attend on Zoom when the main meeting is in the Kingdom Hall? Will people get discouraged if only a few turn up at the Kingdom Hall and numbers fall yet further?

  • tenyearsafter

    Slimboyfat...it is interesting you mention that "At the same time I think it’s only fair to acknowledge that JWs have done a much better job at retaining members than most other religious groups."

    I remember that the Pew Research Center did a survey on youth retention in religions, and JW's were near the bottom of the pile at about 35% of youth raised in the religion staying on as adults. That does not portend well for the future numbers given the small number of outside converts being added.

  • slimboyfat

    When someone who was raised a JW is asked in a survey if they are still a JW I suspect they understand the question differently than many other groups would.

    Many who have been brought up as Catholics will continue to describe themselves as Catholics even if they have not attended for a considerable time. People brought up as JWs, on the other hand, are more likely to say they are no longer JWs if they are inactive, because they know that JWs count membership on the basis of participation in preaching. I think that’s a factor in why JW retention rates appear to be so low in these surveys. These surveys tend to indicate that around a third of JW children remain in adulthood. That’s not a bad rate of success if it relates to active JWs, as I suspect it mainly does.

    To look at it another way, if JW real retention rates aren’t better than most other churches, then it becomes difficult to explain why the number of JW congregations is holding up better than other groups. (For example the number of Mormon congregations in Scotland has declined 15% over the past 10 years whereas the number of JW congregations has stayed the same.)

  • asp59

    They done a world of a crap job. Organization that have probably spent most hour out recruiting and millions or billions printing litteratur, ends with not only zero growth in many parts of western world, but in many places shrinking. People are afraid of leaving cause they won't have contact with family, so they become pimo or inactive. Result half empty meetings and lack of donations. They been compare to Mormons on this site or if they doing better then Mormons. Mormons don't drink coffee, tea or alcohol and they want 10% of salary. If you doing as good as a organization that has does requirements... you doing really really bad.

  • hoser

    Where I live they keep closing halls and amalgamating to larger centres. But there is no growth, only decline.

  • tenyearsafter

    As Slimboyfat notes, it's all a matter of interpretation and perception. For JW's, everything is black and white so if they aren't active, they aren't a JW...for other religions, such as Catholics, you are what you were born as, active or not.

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