JWs Changing "Baptism Questions" Effective May 13?

by Room 215 79 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • EmptyInside

    Most Witnesses won't notice the change. And they still refer to it as Jehovah's organization.

    I know information,that ex-Witnesses think is a big deal,Witnesses don't even blink an eye.

    If I would bring it up to my family,they would look at me suspiciously,and ask me how I know that. So,I don't bother anymore.

  • Listener

    Their reason for asking the previous question "Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?"was to establish membership with the organization.

    Firstly, what is this 'spirit-directed organization'? Wouldn't any Christian recognize this to be God's Kingdom, ruled by Jesus? There's no mention of any earthly organization being identified. There is no mention of any membership. Simply being recognized as a JW does not infer membership to any particular earthly organization - no congregation, or the Watchtower (which Losch himself said he was not connected to)

    But what's really interesting is the similarity between the wording of the baptismal question and their connections with the UN. They claimed that they were never a member of the UN as only Countries can be a member, not NGO's.

    However, the original 1992 application form states "Please note that the association of your Non-governmental Organization (NGO) with the Department of Public Information (DPI) requires that you provide us with proof ....."

    They also said that they stopped their association when they realized that there were conditions that they could not agree to (inferring that they would have continued on had those conditions not been there). If they consider an individual to be a 'member' of their organization because of the baptismal question then the same applies to the UN situation but it goes further.

    They have been associated with the OSCE and as far as I know, they still are. (The OSCE being a very important member and connected to the UN). The OSCE does not have the same responsibilities for DPO's having to physically show support for their organization like the UN does, the Watchtower has remained associated with them. Because of their view of creating a membership status within their own organization (by merely agreeing that you associate with them in the baptismal question), applying their own beliefs then, it can only be concluded that they are a member of the OSCE who connects with the UN.

    Do you understand that your baptism identifies you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with Jehovah's organization?

    It is likely that there are still a number of legal loopholes in an individual agreeing to this statement. The first and the major one is that there is no agreement to abide by any of the rules set out by the Governing Body or the 'organization'.

    The organization cannot be identified simply by calling it Jehovah's organization. There is no authority that the individual ascribes to anyone else to decide whether they are or are not a Jehovah's Witness. In other words, the individual does not authorize anyone else, an individual, congregation or group of people to decide that they are or are not a JW.

    No one even says to the individual that they have been accepted as a JW, at best, they have been told that they have been approved for baptism or accepted as a 'publisher' which occurs before baptism.

    When disfellowshipping they publicly announce "(name of person) is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses". Maybe they would be better off stating "(name of person) is not considered to be a Jehovah's Witness by Jehovah's organization" Although, that statement may also bring up some privacy issues by mentioning the persons name in public.

  • slimboyfat

    If this change is for real, among other things, doesn’t it once again display complete disregard for ordinary JWs? Many religious organisations would consult members before making such an important change. Far less than consulting members, often Watchtower doesn’t even offer any explanation for such changes. Wouldn’t it be at least courteous to ordinary JWs who have already been baptised using the old wording, as well as prospective members using the new wording, to explain the reasons for the change? Instead ordinary JWs are left to speculate and wonder: as lesser mortals they apparently have no right to know the whys and wherefores of changes that impact them personally. Watchtower may argue that this is how “theocracy” functions. That might excuse the decision making process, but it doesn’t explain the complete lack of explanation for decisions made. The attitude of Watchtower toward ordinary members dispalys contempt.

  • JW GoneBad
    JW GoneBad

    Slimboyfat...hot damn you just stole my thunder! I kid you not...I just signed-in to make that very same point!

    often Watchtower doesn’t even offer any explanation for such changes

    This change of the baptismal questions...especially #2 ...without an explanation or scriptural citation is a complete disregard to the rank and file!

    It is sooo disgusting of this cult to think they're going to get away with this without any repercussions...me thinks there'll be a high price to pay!

    God damn-it God...bring it on!

  • LongHairGal


    I was baptized before they changed the question to include Organization...

    The LAST thing you would ever see is the religion asking or consulting with members about changes. 🤣. Once the Great and Powerful Oz has spoken how dare anybody expect an explanation?

  • lastmanstanding

    I looked at the Watchtower ap. and I post below what it says. I don’t think the “change” is fake news, but it is not changed in the ap. This leads me to believe that the change was made in haste as they have not had time to update the ap. That said, I have not updated my own ap in a while.

    CONCLUDING DISCUSSION WITH BAPTISM CANDIDATESBaptisms are usually held at assemblies and conventions of Jehovah’s Witnesses. At the conclusion of the baptism talk, the speaker will ask the baptism candidates to stand and answer the following two questions in a loud voice:1. On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?2. Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization?Affirmative answers to these questions constitute a “public declaration” by the baptism candidates that they have put faith in the ransom and have unreservedly dedicated themselves to Jehovah. (Rom. 10:9, 10) Baptism candidates will want to give prayerful thought to these questions in advance so that they can answer in harmony with their personal convictions.What is appropriate attire for baptism? (John 15:19
  • belogical

    Totally fake news to flush out the informers. word on the street has it that every document downloaded by any person has a digital signature attached to it. The moles who post publicly can be traced by the mother Org. the same goes with images posted on other websites etc.

    Just think for a moment would such a dramatic be post dated as to it's implementation.

  • lastmanstanding


    No, I don’t think it’s fake news, it smells about right. In any case we will know for sure shortly as the convention season gets underway.

  • blondie

    Right on, SBF. I missed the changes in the baptism questions; I was baptized before that. I don't think I even listened to the questions after that, baptism talk the most boring after memorial talk. I didn't realize the changes over time until getting on a ex-jw DB.

  • lastmanstanding

    I just updated my ap. The questions have not changed in the electronic version of the organized book.

    I must say though that getting to page 209 where the questions are found is next to impossible. You cannot scroll to them, but have to hit the one and only link to the page as it is found buried at the very bottom of page 165 where it says that

    [Note to congregation elders: Instructions for handling discussions with baptism candidates appear on pages 211-214.]

    It’s like... they don’t want you to be able to read them in the electronic version.

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