Does anyone have info on the guy that sued Jw in Canada

by poopie 106 Replies latest jw friends

  • poopie

    we're not talking about silly stuff were talking about a man that had his business affected his livelihood. Not dumb stuff ie stalking beating up spouse.

  • Fisherman
    let's be real.

    Very real. And worse. And: judges and prosecutors are untouchables. Read the news, Google it, go around the block for once in your life.

  • Scully

    Is it just me, or does David Gnam gets slimier every time he opens his mouth?

    I thought Judicial™ matters were supposed to be confidential??? Why is he recounting the reasons for Mr. Wall's expulsion from the Congregation™?

    I'll bet dollars to donuts that he's counting the time for his Field Service Report™.

  • Fisherman
    Why is he recounting the reasons for Mr. Wall's expulsion from the Congregation™?

    I think it is because disclosure rests with the congregant. The congregant in this case, the respondent, already disclosed the confidential information you reference to the Courts.

  • wannaexit

    does David Gnam gets slimier every time he opens his mouth?

    Yup he is slimer all right. I dislike that man with a passion.

  • Fisherman
    I dislike that man with a passion.

    All personal feelings aside, Gnam is a very talented lawyer. He did a thorough job in arguing wt position on the related case.

  • Fisherman
    Not dumb stuff ie stalking beating up spouse.

    OK, but let's anyway consider such a case: A Family Court or Criminal Court can proscribe communication between family members.

  • search

    I thought Judicial™ matters were supposed to be confidential??? Why is he recounting the reasons for Mr. Wall's expulsion from the Congregation™?

    You are very correct.

    In all other recorded cases, the elders strenuously object to revealing ANYTHING from a JC, even in molestation cases.

    For example, in Jones v. British Columbia (Attorney General), 2007 BCSC 1455 (CanLII), - the elder said: "My duty under canon law to keep the above religious communication confidential continues. No matter what the outcome of the police investigation, my conscientious responsibility to preserve confidential religious communications continues"

    In my case, the opposite has been done.

    As I have said, the affidavits of the two elders are being presented as being 100% factual, to which I not only strongly disagree, there is incontrovertible third-party evidence to the contrary.

    If I win at SCC, this will only be magnified upon return to trial court.

  • Fisherman
    In my case, the opposite has been done.

    If you claim that Appellants violated confidentiality: Lawsuit! Big bucks!!!!!

    Did you or your lawyers object to the protected information being used in Court?

  • search

    Portion of original trial court transcript - Re: Can one even speak to a DF'd member?

    Page 20

    1 them they would walk away or ignore him?
    3 MR GNAM: Right.
    5 THE COURT: Okay. And if he phoned they -- and they
    6 realized it's him they would be expected to hang up?
    8 MR GNAM: Yes.
    10 THE COURT: Yeah. Okay. I mean, I'm putting aside --
    11 hopefully I'm putting aside somebody is trying to kill me. I need the police. Call the
    12 police. I can't do it. They would be expected to respond to that presumably.
    14 MR GNAM: Of course.
    16 THE COURT: Yeah. Okay. So the notion therefore of
    17 shunning can be pretty dramatic, I would think, for some folks if this happens to be the
    18 community of their closest friends at one time. Now, you're essentially -- you're persona
    19 non grata. Nobody is -- is permitted to -- really to talk to you. What happens if
    20 somebody in the congregation chooses to say, I am going to talk to him? I am going to
    21 socialize with you. What -- is there a punishment for them for --
    23 MR GNAM: The -- the other --
    25 THE COURT: -- failing to shun him?
    27 MR. GNAM: In that circumstance likely the elders in the
    28 congregation would go up and speak to that person, try and help them understand why the
    29 congregation has a disfellowshipping arrangement, and why that arrangement requires
    30 them not to -- to have contact with that person.
    32 THE COURT: Can -- can you tell me that? I mean, I'm not a
    33 member of the church, so I haven't either been admitted nor disfellowed. But they would
    34 talk to me in this -- and, I mean, presuming they wanted to. Let's say we've got
    35 something in general in common. We're talking about the Calgary Flames for heaven's
    36 sakes.
    38 So they would talk to me as a complete and utter stranger not connected to the church.
    39 Why is it that they are expected to shun him? He's the one who has demonstrated an
    40 inability to live by the church 's tenets, I get --- get that. Why are they, other members of
    41 the congregation, expected to shun him? To have nothing to do with him?

    Page 21

    2 MR. GNAM: The hope is -- the -- the -- part of that
    3 discipline process that that will help the individual see the seriousness of what they did.
    5 THE COURT: Oh, I see.
    7 MR. GNAM: And encourage them to come back to the
    8 congregation --
    10 THE COURT: Okay. Okay.
    12 MR. GNAM: -- to be repentant.
    14 THE COURT: So in other words, because that sense of
    15 isolation you would realize, Holy cow, this is really serious. And if you didn't understand
    16 the seriousness of it before this is hopefully to pass that seriousness on.
    18 MR. GNAM: Exactly.
    20 THE COURT: That's the purpose behind it.
    22 MR. GNAM: Yes.
    24 THE COURT: Now, a person then who re -- fails to do the
    25 shunning, you say will be spoken to. What happens if that person says , Well , thanks very
    26 much. I happen to read a different section in the Bible. And that other section or other
    27 verse may tell me that God is a merciful God, and that God is a forgiving God. And I
    28 prefer to put greater emphasis on that with all due regard to the rest of the tenets of our
    29 church.
    31 What if a person took that sort of approach to the elders when being counselled to
    32 continue the shunning? And that person said, well , essentially with respect I'm not going
    33 to follow it. Does that person face some form of discipline?
    35 MR. GNAM: It would depend, My Lord --
    37 THE COURT: Yeah.
    39 MR. GNAM: -- in -- in the sense that the -- the elders are not
    40 expected to police the relationships between members of the congregation --

    Page 22

    1 THE COURT: No, no, but -- but came to an elder's attention.
    3 MR. GNAM: -- or their relationship with other people.
    5 THE COURT: Yeah.
    7 MR. GNAM: The elders would become more seriously
    8 involved in that circumstance. If the person the -- is a member ofthe congregation, and
    9 is -- is associating with a disfellowshipped person, does that in a blatant way, and in
    10 and in a way that rejects the authority of the congregation and the Bible principles that the
    11 Congregation believes in, in terms of the reasons.
    13 THE COURT: Well, just -- no. But -- but that may be just
    14 what that elder is telling him that that's what is. And so, I mean, we all surely don't have
    15 such a -- a view of the Biblical teachings that one can't also feel comforted by some other
    16 passage which allows you to take a different view.
    18 So we 've got an -- perhaps an honest disagreement of opinion by -- held by two
    19 honourable people, both who otherwise are strong adherents to the -- to the -- to the -- to
    20 the faith . Do I infer from where you're trying not to go, but I think I'm trying to push
    21 you there, that if that person then continues to ignore the shunning they will be
    22 disciplined in some fashion?
    24 MR. GNAM: That -- that is possible, My Lord.
    26 THE COURT: What would be the nature of the punishment?
    27 Disfellowshipment as well?
    29 MR. GNAM: It -- it would be exactly the same process that
    30 we 're describing --
    32 THE COURT: M-hm.
    34 MR. GNAM: -- and what happened with Mr. Wall.
    36 THE COURT: M-hm.
    38 MR. GNAM: Elders would meet with -- two elders would
    39 meet with the individual, try and encourage them, give them scriptural reasons --
    41 THE COURT: Right.

    Page 23

    2 MR. GNAM: -- why that association is not correct according
    3 to Bible standards. If the person were to persist then they would be asked to appear
    4 before a judicial committee, and the three elders would then meet with the individual and
    5 try and reason with them. And if they persisted -- they said, You know, that's -- exactly
    6 just to use your --
    8 THE COURT: Yeah.
    10 MR. GNAM: -- your example --
    12 THE COURT: Yeah.
    14 MR. GNAM: That's your bel -- that's what you believe.
    15 That's you -- how you interpret the scriptures. I interpret them diff -- differently. Then
    16 the congregation elders might well choose to disfellowship that person as well.

    18 THE COURT: M-hm. And again it would fall to the judicial
    19 committee to do that? Who--
    21 MR. GNAM: To make that decision.
    23 THE COURT: Okay. The church is essentially -- and each
    24 congregation is it, to use a -- is it run by the elders? Each congregation? They're the
    25 ones who are kind of in -- in charge?
    27 MR. GNAM: Take -- the elders take the lead.
    29 THE COURT: Yeah.
    31 MR. GNAM: They -- in the congregations of Jehovah's
    - 32 Witnesses the elders are viewed as shepherds not leaders, in the sense that each person is
    33 responsible for their own faith .
    35 THE COURT: Right.
    --: 37 MR. GNAM: And the elders have a spe -- a specific
    38 shepherding responsibility to encourage, and to comfort, and to include --
    40 THE COURT: Yeah.

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