Is most of the promotion of creationism, not just that by the WT, charlatanism?

by Disillusioned JW 86 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Disillusioned JW

  Anony Mous, I also would like to see the science journal article or at least a science news article about RNA and DNA being created completely from scratch under simulations of early Earth-like conditions, for I am not aware of such having been accomplished. I am aware of scientists partially creating RNA under such conditions but I don't know if its specific code (that which was created under early Earth-like conditions) is biologically useful.

  I know they have created genetic material using enzymes extracted from living organisms, but that is not the same as demonstrating an aspect of abiogenesis. I also have the impression they have not solved the protein folding problem. It also appears that they have not made a true cell membrane from scratch though they have made proteinoid microspheres. It also appears they have not made complete ribosomes from scratch.
  

  What you said about a Turing-complete computer having been made is news to me.
  
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  Vidqun

  Anony Mous, you've said it. It has been CREATED in a lab. That explains it all.
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  Disillusioned JW

  Anony Mous, had the word "created" in quote marks, suggesting it was not really created by humans but that humans merely created a favorable environment for nature (undirected by any intelligence) to bring into being the various chemicals.
  
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  waton

  created a favorable environment for nature (undirected by any intelligence) to bring into being the various chemicals.

  DJ: and that is where the creator comes in. The genius is, that it took uncreated energy, & laws to create and govern the universe and its different structure, including life's developments.

  Newton thought that god had to tinker to keep it stable for so long. we think we know better now.

  she is smarter than that.
  
  
  
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  Disillusioned JW

  In an article from 2014 Bill Nye (see https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/04/science/in-undeniable-bill-nye-speaks-evolution-directly-to-creationists.html) makes the following excellent point.

  "My biggest concern about creationist kids is that they’re compelled to suppress their common sense, to suppress their critical thinking skills at a time in human history when we need them more than ever. By the time you’re 18, you’ve made up your mind. It’s going to be really hard for you, as they say in the Mormon tradition, to “lose your testimony.” But if you’re 7 or 8, we got a shot."

  The WT literature definitely hindered my ability (by causing me to suppress my common sense in some areas) to draw the correction conclusion that evolution is a fact and that there is no Jehovah God and no heavenly Jesus Christ. If only I had become convinced of evolution during my preteens, then I would never had become a baptized JW and never a baptized Christian and my life would be better off as a result! Even now, despite being an atheist, I still study religion (though it is now from an atheistic mindset).
  
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  Disillusioned JW

  waton, are you saying you believe a god exists and that the god is a female, or are you saying you believe in pantheism (of the kind which says that the universe/cosmos really is a god or is the God), or something else? I believe in scientific naturalism - no supernatural beings at all. I also believe that of everything which exists, and of everyone who exists, the universe/cosmos comes the closest to fitting the definition of the word "god". That is because it exists everywhere that something exists, and it contains within it all of the power and all of the knowledge that exists. As such, it comes the closest to being a 3 O (omnipresence, omnipotence, and omniscience) type of god.

  In addition knowledge of the existence of quantum entanglement and of what is called the "fabric of the universe" adds support to the idea that universe is one entity (in some ways like a living organism/being) made up of many interconnected parts - even when the interconnections are invisible to us.
  
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  waton

  evolution is a tool of creation, shaping, a process that for us, started 13.8 billion years ago, and had a major event after the first 10, with abiogenesis, the start of organic life.

  It is not about kid's feelings, but an immense reality out there.
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  Vidqun

  Even if scientists succeed in creating life, not DNA or RNA, but a living cell able to procreate in a "primordial soup" in a lab, I will still not believe. The problem is with the words "creating" and "in a lab."

  Abiogenesis is an impossibility. From there for the primitive cell to develop and diversify into complicated cells, structures and sexes by means of "beneficial" mutations is a second impossibility as the video demonstrated. If you teach your kids this, you are teaching them a fallacy and a lie. You are indeed stunting their development. Whatever the origin of life is, abiogenesis and evolution it is not.
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  Disillusioned JW

  Vidqun, in the lab nature has often been observed forming complexity out of simplicity - simply from a combination of the laws of nature (and it forces), randomness, and the presence of a little energy. For example, complex molecules have been observed coming into existence from very simple molecules under simple environmental conditions. This is largely due to the electric charges of the atoms of various elements, which only allow certain elements to bond in certain configurations with certain atoms. As an illustration of this concept, see the video from PBS show called "Genius by Stephen Hawking" at https://www.pbs.org/video/genius-stephen-hawking-how-atoms-are-created-magnet-experiment/ . The nature of the carbon atom allows it to form complex molecular chains - far more so than the atom of any element can. Scientists discovered that organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon based molecules.

  To me abiogenesis is a strong possibility, so much so I am convinced it happened more than 3.5 billion years ago. I am even surprised that scientists haven't yet seen it happen in their simulated environments of their labs.
  
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  waton

  god exists and that the god is a female,

  DJ: I am just playing with the biblical idea, that (in connection with the temple dedication) it was said, that the whole universe could not contain the creator. that was certainly true at the Big Bang, when all what we have today, was contained in a singularity. With an omnipresent creator, that would have him containing the all, which is really the hallmark of a female.

  I have the greatest admiration of the creation, but it is work, not the worker, in my view., but a great window into his/her personality.

  There are non biblical messages in creation, artwork so to speak that goes beyond strictly utilitarian/ most efficient developments. I have seen that a J figures in it. for en-Joy or may be the tribe of Joseph.