Can you believe the opening song at the memorial tonight?!

by Indian Larry 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Drearyweather

  Funchback,

  For your info, I was having a conversation with ambersun, not with you or other posters.

  Now, since this is a discussion forum, if you disagree with what I said, you could have just stated your disagreement or your arguments for it.

  But instead, you just jumped on the wagon and went on a personal tirade against me.

  If that was not enough, you said that since I am associating with apostates here, me and my family would be slaughtered at Armageddon. THERE WAS SIMPLY NO NEED FOR YOU TO COMMENT ON MY FAMILY. I was just explaining my point to a poster, not abusing or arguing with anyone here.

  I don't know from where did you get this idea that if one member of the family posts on such forums, the entire JW family is doomed to death. There are posters here who have active JW family members

  If you disagree with anyone, simply put your opinion here and have a constructive discussion, rather than personally attacking the poster.

  Take some time and read the posts of other senior posters too and learn how they have stated their disagreements.

  For the matter, ambersun, (with whom I was discussing the point) was extremely respectful and polite. Learn from him.

  
  
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  Indian Larry

  Dearyweather, you said:
  
  

  The 'spirit anointed sons' mentioned in the opening song does not simply refer to 'group of men' or the governing body. It includes all anointed christians (even those who are dead now), the first century apostles of Christ and other Christians (including women). According to JW's a vast majority of such anointed ones are already dead and are in heaven.The song refers to all the 144,000 anointed ones, not just the GB

  
  That is technically correct. To be accurate I should have said the song is directed towards the 144,000. However there are elements of the song that make it seem like it is directed to the anointed that still alive, not those from the first century. For instance when the average witness sings "they are a people for your name" it sounds like people that are currently alive. When the song says "they declare abroad your name" that sounds like that is something that is currently being done.
  
  The GB has made it clear that the anointed as a group do not lead the declaration of God's name, last July they made it clear that THEY are the ones in charge of that. So you can see why many (not all but many) of the 8 million people plus that sang that song were thinking of people alive (because they are described as currently declaring his name, handling truth aright etc). Another reason that many witnesses will consider this song to be primarily (not exclusively but primarily) about the GB is that the lyrics say:
  

  "They gather the other sheep"

  According to them that started being done in the 20th century. So that would rule out
  
  

  all anointed christians (even those who are dead now), the first century apostles of Christ and other Christians (including women).
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  Listener

  Dreary Weather, put into context what Funchback said
  
  

  OK, then. Just don't ask them to carry a mic, among many other things they can't do on earth as JWs. Sure, they're good enough to co-rule with this Christ character and also help slaughter billions, including you and your family (since you are here associating with us condemned apostates), but they are unqualified to say an opening prayer.
  

  
  It sounds like you find this statement to be extreme and hurtful yet many of us read these types of comments through the pages of Watchtower publications. Yet I doubt Funchback is condemning you to this catastrophe but simply pointing out using "Watchtower" reasoning what they claim your fate is and possibly that of some of your family members.
  
  

  Insight sanctification - Because of the ‘merit’ of the believer, the young children of the union are considered holy, under divine care and protection—not unclean as are children who do not have even one believing parentWatchtower 71 1/15 At 1 Corinthians 7:14 the Bible shows that God can consider as “holy” the minor children of a Christian parent. Though they are young and not yet to the point of being personally responsible to Jehovah, their parent is trying to develop in them a love of God and of the way of righteousness. It seems clear that at the time of the destructive war of Armageddon God will preserve them on the basis of the family merit of the Christian parent, even though the children are not yet dedicated and baptized.

  
  "Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.19
  "In effect, Jesus also conveys Jehovah’s voice to us as he directs the congregation through “the faithful and discreet slave.” (Matt. 24:45) We need to take this guidance and direction seriously, for our everlasting life depends on our obedience." Watchtower 2014 Aug 15 p.21
  "There are billions of people who do not know Jehovah. Many of them in ignorance practice things that God's Word shows to be wicked. If they persist in this course, they will be among those who perish during the great tribulation." Watchtower 1993 Oct 1 p.19

  
  Why on earth is it acceptable for the Watchtower to comment on the fate of us and our family and yet not acceptable for someone to point out those exact claims that they have made in a hypothetical manner?
  
  It is interesting how you find Funchbacks comments to be extreme, do you think it would be prudent of the Watchtower to be more mature, discreet, respectful and polite when people choose not to obey their instructions?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
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  Drearyweather

  It is interesting how you find Funchbacks comments to be extreme, do you think it would be prudent of the Watchtower to be more mature, discreet, respectful and polite when people choose not to obey their instructions?

  I do not agree with the WT view that all non-JW's will perish in Armageddon. Now just because the WT uses this teaching against non-JW's, does this give Funchback the liberty to comment on me and the fate of my family?

  He could have simply put his views about the point I was making rather than directly go on a hostile mode towards me and my family. Had I said anything against him personally or against any other poster?

  I was just replying to one poster about the song he was speaking about, not about who is getting destroyed at Armageddon and who is not. It is not polite or respectful to speak about the slaughtering of one's family especially when that person has seen 2 of his close family members die in front of him.
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  Drearyweather

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  Drearyweather

  .Yet I doubt Funchback is condemning you to this catastrophe but simply pointing out using "Watchtower" reasoning what they claim your fate is and possibly that of some of your family members.

  I had not asked any question or was not having any argument with Funchback, for him to use WT reasoning to decide the fate of my family. I was simply speaking to ambersun about the memorial song, nothing else.

  Was I discussing about Armageddon?

  And what did I actually say to Funchback, for him to use this reasoning against me and my family?
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  Drearyweather

  .Yet I doubt Funchback is condemning you to this catastrophe but simply pointing out using "Watchtower" reasoning what they claim your fate is and possibly that of some of your family members.

  I had not asked any question or was not having any argument with Funchback, for him to use WT reasoning to decide the fate of my family. I was simply speaking to ambersun about the memorial song, nothing else.

  And what did I actually say to Funchback, for him to use this reasoning against me and my family?
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  Listener

  DrearyWeather are you a JW?
  
  Again, you are taking what Funchback said out of context. You are trying to twist his words into saying something that he did not. Look a little closer

  and also help slaughter billions, including you and your family (since you are here associating with us condemned apostates),
  
  
  
  
  

  
  He has simply put you in the same category of condemnation by the Watchtower organization that all us so called 'apostates' are, including our own families and himself personally. He has not attacked you anymore than we ourselves are attacked by the organization. He did not claim that this would happen to you and your family, that is just Watchtowers view.
  
  But it has drawn out a point of view from you that is important.
  
  

  It is not polite or respectful to speak about the slaughtering of one's family

  
  This is the very thing that JWs do when they call from house to house and leave their literature which explicitly makes that claim.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
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  Drearyweather

  He has simply put you in the same category of condemnation by the Watchtower organization that all us so called 'apostates' are, including our own families and himself personally.

  Great reasoning. Let me ask you something:

  What prompted him to suddenly jump into the discussion that I was having with another poster about the memorial song and start a tirade against me and family being slaughtered? I am not twisting his words, just stating what he has written: and also help slaughter billions, including you and your family.

  Another point, the Watchtower does not teach the idea that if one family member becomes apostate, the other practicing JW family is also destroyed at Armageddon.
  
  
  
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  Listener

  If you think it was a tirade then you will have to ask Funchback.
  
  Getting back on track, I did ask you a question which I was curious about. You claimed the following
  
  

  JW Memorial is not just a memorial service for remembering Jesus death. It is also called "The Lord's Evening Meal" and hence includes remembering those who shared the final meal with Jesus Christ during his last night and those who are included in the covenant with Jesus.

  
  I asked you if you could supply support for that idea from Watchtower publications? Since the organization only bases their practices on the Bible, would you happen to know which scriptures this idea is based on?
  
  Since the Governing Body is included in the covenant, they are remembered constantly by the rank and file because the Governing Body keeps reminding them to do so.
  
  Heres one quote from the Watchtower 15 June 09 that would suggest no special attention is to be given to them.

  However, genuine anointed Christians do not demand special attention..... nor do they expect special treatment .