Why don't faithful angels prove God's Universal Sovreignty

by joelbear 63 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • BluesBrother

    Strange how beliefs that I held for the best part of my life can now appear so stupid.

    Since stopping the life of dubdom I had pushed this to the back of my mind because other issues were quite enough to debunk WT teaching. But , by golly you are right. It had never struck me before but that doctrine is just so ilogical !

    I am glad I logged on tonight.

  • JCanon
    I don't think God's universal authority is ever in doubt. But the issue of it was raised on earth with the disobedience of man under the influence of Satan. Therefore, the earth becomes the "proving ground" for Satan and his angels as well as for mankind.

    Here's a thought as to why the earth is involved. I think that probably in Heaven there was no "sin". I mean, what could an angel DO that was a sin? What kind of rules were there? Yet the concept of "disagreeing" with how God did things was potentially there. The angels had potentially rebelled in spirit and thought. So how was God to get rid of these angels and enforce his sovereignty? RULES! A world of rules with the death penalty. Thus, while we think of the rules as only applying to Adam and Eve and humankind, in reality, they were universal rules that applied to the angels as well. Of course, of note, Satan got sentenced to death because of his ACTIONS. So I think earth is a proving ground because Heaven simply didn't allow the angels to ACT on anything that would be a sin. Just "disagreeing" and "criticizing" God was probably annoying but not a sin. Once a system was set up where the angels could act on their rebellious thoughts then God could apply the rules. Satan likely thought this was hypocritical and got right in there and got mankind to sin early on thus forcing God to kill all future mankind by these new rules. But then God got around that rule with the RESURRECTION RULE which probably was a surprise to Satan. That rule said that if you die a sinner then you can't come back. But if you die innocent you can come back. So theoretically God simply added another level to beat out Satan and to make his own rule work in his faver. That is, just require everybody to die (symbolically or otherwise). Those who died faithful would then be eligible for the resurrection. Those that did not would not be eligible. In the overall picture though, it is less dramatic. It simply works out that all that were created were given temporary lives to do with what they wished, like flowers blooming and then fading. God wasn't obligated to go beyond that if he didn't want to, and still life was a beautiful testament to his great creative powers. But....for those special creations he wanted around for forever, he arranged for that to occur. Thus, everybody is given one temporary life to live, basically as they please. For those who are willing to obey God's laws and find a way to love him, he grants them eternity. So he's not such a cruel God or vindictive God as a smart God. J Canon

  • Satanus

    According to the wt, jehovah's name has been sullied by the mere existence of disobedient humans and angels. It won't be fully sanctified until god quenches the life of the very last being that refuses to submit by becoming a jw if they are human, but angels aren't allowed to repent.

    *** ip-2 chap. 26 p. 384 "Be Joyful Forever in What I Am Creating" ***Soon Jehovah will sanctify his illustrious name by destroying all opposers. (Psalm 83:17, 18) Then the new heavens will be in complete control.

    *** si p. 137 Bible Book Number 26—Ezekiel ***As the prophecy shows, he will sanctify his name by destroying all profaners of that name, including Gog of Magog. Wise are all those who now sanctify Jehovah in their lives by meeting his requirements for acceptable worship.

    A control freak god. Yes, very strange.


  • DannyBear

    Just the mere concept of faithful and unfaithful angels, gives me a headache.

    Powerful, majestic spirit creatures, who abandoned God even before man came on the scene. For that is the message 'true believers' must accept if you buy into the whole 'garden of eden' story.

    The gullibility one must exercise, knows no bounds upon acceptance of any of these stories. It is the first leap of faith that engenders all sorts of appology for god and his so called written word.

    All because we were raised with the notion.........inculcated with the fallacy, THE BIBLE is what it claims to be!

    Prove it. No has or will. It still ends up a matter of faith.......who's faith is better mine or yours?


  • Mr. Kim
    Mr. Kim

    Why don't faithful angels prove God's Universal Sovreignty?


    It is NOT the faithful Angels responsibility to "prove" anything unless instructed to do so. Everything in "Jehovah's time." When that time has arrived, the faithful Angels will do as requested by Jehovah.

    Mankind is not supposed to have the explicit, exact, righteous answers when "man" wants them. Mankind is the creation and is subject to the Creator's desires. It does not matter if Mankind likes it or not.--- As long as everything is within the "LAWS" of love which were handed down to all of Mankind.

    "Such is the way of things."

    Mr. KIM

  • Satanus

    That's quite a dictatorship god made for himself, mr kim. Imagine if people tried to imitate god ... "Son, your mother and i made you, so you better follow our laws, or else, and of course we love you. But we really wish you would follow our laws, because, if you don't, our sense of justice will force us to kill you."


  • peacefulpete

    Actually Ellen White cofounder of the 7th day adventist group honed the doctrine of "Universal Sovereignty" as an excuse for the Christian God's neglegence into the form preached by the JWs today. The whole premise is absurd. Killing billions and allowing all manner of pain and suffering to prove he's not malevolent to a handful of people. Besides the WT has said that Jesus settled the matter 2000 years ago by his "remaining faithful" as a perfect man. It's all smoke and mirrors.

  • DannyBear


    ****It's all smoke and mirrors.****

    Throughout history whenever man labels something holy, god's spoken word, inspired.....it opens the floodgates of pure speculation, interpretation and outright guesses.

    Every form of religion suffer's the same origin and end result.

    Today on this board, educated men are debating the orgin of Hebrew and Greek words, to support one guess or another about a religious tome.

    When I read these debates now, I can only laugh at the absurdity of the whole drama. It is mankind legacy of folly and gullibility. Worthless endeavor imo.


  • minimus

    The simple answer is----It isn't time yet-------Why doesn't God bring back the dead?-----It isn't time yet--------Why doesn't God stop wickedness?-----It isn't time yet------Why didn't God destroy Satan yet?-----It isn't time yet.-------------You got it???

  • Mr. Kim
    Mr. Kim


    How is it going? Anyway, on to business.

    To answer your post: Actions have consequences. Simple as that.

    Mr. KIM

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