Why are the atheists on this site so hateful?
If a belief is so shallow it cannot stand up to criticism then that belief is not worthy of continuing to exist. The problem theists have isn't the criticism they rightly attract, it is their inability to logically or empirically substantiate their position.
If certain topics were off limits then this would become an echo chamber. However every topic on here seems to be open to criticism. This can only be good for how else would a reader be able to weigh up a subject if there were only people participating who agreed with each other. Now, what a reader will see is that some subjects are backed up with evidence and some subjects exist only because people know how to string a sentence together. The ability to critically analyse a topic is something that ex-JWs need to learn, having spent most of their lives being taught not to do just that by the entire organisation.
Visitors to this site don't have to post. In fact, the best thing to do at first is just read and get to know the personalities of the main posters. If anyone were to read the topics on this site about theism I am sure they would quickly see that the aggression and personal attacks come from theists in the main and that there is a common theme in these topics i.e. the position of theism is not rational or logical or backed up with anything more than a wish for something to be.
If people are put off by the tone of this site then I feel that they are not yet ready for the real world. However I would be surprised if any visitor to this site would be so thin skinned. Yes they may complain like a child that has been told they have to share their favourite toy but they would still come back and read. And who knows, maybe they will follow a link, do some reading and get a taste of what real learning feels like.
Personally I have no objection to theists preaching. Even if they don't engage in conversation it provides an opportunity to demonstrate how vacuous faith is.
You're not addressing my concerns but advocating for the continued thrashing of all theistic discourse as far as I can tell.
you said, ". If anyone were to read the topics on this site about theism I am sure they would quickly see that the aggression and personal attacks come from theists in the main and that there is a common theme in these topics i.e. the position of theism is not rational or logical or backed up with anything more than a wish for something to be."...
people need time to work through their "trama". Most people benefit from being given that time to go in their own direction. Because we ARE a magnet for exiting JW's I don't think the best course of action is to welcome them and when they do screw up enough courage to talk about what's on their mind, they are met with the demand to justify their belief. These are often naive adults who are programed to think a certain way and it seems to me that it is less than helpful to throw them into the deepend of the pool when they can't even swim.
I believe there ARE people who lurk for a long time and don't post to ask questions and work through their own PERSONAL experience because they see how others are treated.
Maybe it's just a touch of melancholy but I remember when this forum was a welcoming place for everyone and these new ones weren't jumped on. People were able to develop a thick skin through comfortable interaction. Once they were ready, they made the choice to jump into a heated discussion...it wasn't thrust on them. Now, I understand that there are new people who jump in and stir the pot, at this point we should all try be the stronger person and don't let them push those buttons that can ruffle feathers, so to speak, instead of goading them to defend their each and every position.
I guess it's about values. Can you value a person and treat them nicely. even if you don't agree with them AT ALL, is it humane to trample them into the dirt. Now I know that the counter argument is that "we're attacking the idea" but you know what, some people (I wont hesitate to say most people) just exiting the JW's take everything personally...that's where they "are"...
...and it's these little ones that I'm standing up for...please, what reason is there to NOT place great value on these ones who come here lost and vulnerable...here to a place that is to them is an unknown and untrustworthy "world".
This topic make me feel good about manifesting "self-control". I've found I can simply ignore them. I usually don't even read them. Haven't read but a handful of posts here. Remember LARS? I just skipped over his posts. Yawn.
Gotta run! Let me know who is breathing when the dust settles. DOC
Edit: Oz, I love that poster. Kinda sums it all up, doesn't it? Where was God for this little one? It's what JWs believe!!!! We're all BIRD FOOD!!
Giles Gray, you are hateful. You saying I deserve the hate because of what I believe in. You are exactly the type to spew all that hatred. Talk to my hand.
You see, to someone who disagrees with your position, this attitude that you-disagree-with-my-beliefs-therefore-you-are-hateful is so counterproductive to honest dialogue.
How a discussion (that's what this board is for: discussion) works is like this:
Person who starts a thread [OP]: "I think (insert topic here), and here's why: (insert statements/assertions here)"
Person 1 who replies: "Well, I disagree with you, and here's why: (insert counterpoint/evidence here)"
Person 2 who replies: "Those are very interesting ideas, OP. Could you please clarify what you said [insert quotation]? and please explain how it relates to the counterpoint/evidence Person 1 posted."
OP: This is the part where, when your opinion / beliefs are challenged, you support your previous statements with actual evidence. You don't get to go on the defensive and call people "hateful" or "stupid" or whatever, simply because they disagree with you, or ask you to provide support for your claims. When you stoop to the level of ad hominem attacks (ie, name calling - attacking the individual rather than the ideas / evidence they present) you weaken your position in the discussion.
Frankly, as an atheist, I take exception to your out-of-the-gate accusation that "atheists are hateful on this site". I haven't said one hateful thing to you, ever, yet you lump me in with people you claim are hateful to you or creationists, when actual "hate" is not even close to what is actually happening. What is actually happening is that people are trying to show you an alternate position to one that you hold to be true. That's not hateful, it's not even unkind.
Let me put it another way: Suppose you know someone who is teaching their children something that is patently false, for instance that there are fairies living in their garden, that can't be seen because they only come out at night to cover the plants and spider webs with dewdrops, when the children are sleeping. It seems like a harmless enough make believe story for children to believe in, but what if this child grows up and still holds to the belief that everyone's back garden has fairies living there? What if it was your workmate? Would you feel at all compelled by kindness and wanting to spare them embarrassment to try to relieve them of their false belief? Would you show them scientific evidence of how dew ends up on the plants?
Let's say you try this. Let's say it doesn't go well. Your workmate feels their beliefs have been unjustly attacked by someone who "hates" garden variety fairies. Would that reaction seem absurd to you?
Anyway, I'm not here to try to dissuade you from what you believe. Please do me and the other atheists the courtesy of refraining from trying to shove your beliefs down our throats. Most of us (the atheists of JWD) are ex-JWs and feel that we've had enough preaching in our lifetimes. You are very welcome to discuss creationist points of view with other creationists here and on other forums, but please note that other people (other creationists included) are equally welcome to hold your feet to the fire and challenge the truth of your claims.
Thank you, and good night.
I'm new to this thread and have only quickly read the first page of it, but your comment to cyberjesus I would like to say something about it.
If God is hateful, it's because of the people that overlook him like he doesn't exist. You can't blame him.
Well are you suggesting here that God has a very thin skin and is easily offended? Your suggestion raises an image of a God that is a spoiled child angry and pouting for not getting his way all the time.
Come on now is that the way a super intelligence like God is suppose to act? Where is all his emotional intelligence in all this hatefulness just for being overlooked as Creator? Awfully touchy if you ask me. I would suppose a supreme being like himself would not care about such things enough to get all upset and angry over it unless he has emotional problems and anger issues.
Do you think that also these anger issues that you project onto your supreme Being are coming from you as some Narcissistic tendencies you are in denial of and so have visions and thoughts of a God that rightly hates to get slighted or ignored and where ever he goes in heaven he is having himself worshiped and his praises sung nonstop.
Like I said ..............................there is a Cult forming here -
Bend forward and get anal-lised by the Atheist rear-gunners !
They don't tolerate any opinion contrary to their viewpoint **- You either Conform or you get it up the rear !
** Now where the fuck have I encountered that before.............lemme think ????
Hate the game, not the player.
Keep the faith, Hope!
"Until there is justice, there will not be peace." -- Prince
If people want to believe that a Creator Being exists, it doesn't bother me.
If I DON'T want to believe it, it shouldn't bother people.
Freedom for everyone! I enjoy freedom from religious organizations and from religious individuals, whom I religiously avoid. These days it never enters my mind to ask if someone is atheist, apple or pc.
I do experience some trepidation when encountering women with their heads wrapped and men with turbans, walking around the walmart. I generally exit quickly as possible. A lot of people who dress that way, love their god so much they are willing to kill themselves and others to demonstrate that love. That's what religion has done for them.
Plain talk is easy understood, although may offend at times.