by ClassAvenger 55 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • ClassAvenger

    I was talking with a JW friend and he said that they believed they would live here on earth forever. He told me a verse in Psalms were it says "...the meek will inherit the earth." For those who believe in heaven, what does this verse mean?

  • AGuest

    May you have peace!

    Unfortunately, your friend is in error (as all who at one time followed the WTBTS were).

    (Hmmmm... I wonder... if those of *us* who at one time listened to a group of hypocritical, old white men of mainly German descent tell us that THEY had the "trooth" and some special connection with God and were appointed to their positions by him... and had absolutely NO DOUBT they were telling *us* the "trooth"... were *schizo* at the time we... ummmmm... believed. I also wonder... whether those of *us* who PREVIOUSLY believed in God and "faithful slaves" and such... have now been... ummm... *cured*... and whether such cure came with... or without... drugs? And did *we*, at the time we did believe such things fit the... ummmm... description... that seems to sum folks up so... tidily? Amazing... the judgments *we* issue out, isn't it?)

    I digress.

    Anyway, dear ClassA... the saying that the "meek" shall inherit the earth refers to the sons of God, by means of an anointing with holy spirit so that it is by HIS blood that "life" now exists in them... those who must BE meek... (Matthew 5:43-48) who shall inherit the earth... and as sons who have inherited... RULE in the kingdom of God which will be... UPON the earth (the NWT falsely changed that to "rule OVER the earth" to support their false teaching of one group in heaven and another on earth).

    The earth was created FOR such ones... and to last indefinitely; however, flesh... with its blood... was not. Thus, it dies. But one day, it will be done away with altogether, because it is of no use at all anyway... at the time that the fleshly bodies of all are exchanged for spiritual ones... corruption exchanged for incorruption... mortality exchanged for immortality.

    Heaven and earth will become ONE realm (they are currently separated BY the flesh, the "curtain" which separates us, flesh with its blood, from God, a Spirit whose "blood" is holy spirit - the life force - remember "the life... is IN THE BLOOD").

    This will occur when the heavenly (spiritual) realm of New Jerusalem manifests itself... "comes down out of heaven" TO the earth so that the "tent" (dwelling place) of God... is WITH mankind, rather than separate from mankind... just as it once was (in Eden, when Adam had direct contact with JAH).

    By means of Christ, God will dwell in ALL mankind, thus turning their flesh from one "kind" to another... flesh without ITS blood... but with HIS blood, holy spirit. That spirit... will make our "mortal" bodies alive: IMmortal. Thus, they will not DIE... as they do now.

    The "Society" teaches that some will be on earth, others will be in heaven. Revelation says, however, that the only two places are INSIDE the City... and OUTSIDE of it. It also tells us who... okay, what... is outside.

    Revelation 21:27; 22:15

    There is only ONE hope, dear CA... and ONE faith, ONE baptism (the one with holy spirit and fire)... and one Lord, JAHESHUA (JAH Saves) MISCHAJAH (chosen of JAH), Son and Christ of the Most Holy One of Israel, the One whose name is JAH... of Armies.

    Psalm 68:4

    Again, I bid you peace.

    A slave of Christ,


  • ellderwho
    He told me a verse in Psalms were it says "...the meek will inherit the earth." For those who believe in heaven

    He's probably refering to Psalm 37:9,11,29. These verses allegedly prove that some of "Jehovahs" people will live forever on a paradise earth.

    However, the psalmist is not refering to a distant future when Yahweh will rid the earth of all wicked, but his own time period and the following generations.

    The psalmist is saying in his time, wicked people would be cut off from the promise land, and the righteous would experience blessings in the promise land.

    The hebrew word used for earth has a refrence to land. specifically the land of Judea promised to the Jewish patriarchs. Or an inheritance.

    The Witnesses always misinterpret "other sheep" great multitude","Little flock."

    Not once does Jesus restrict the kingdom of God to specific number of people. On the contrary he said all people should seek the kingdom, and who sought it would find it.

    "If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me, and where I am, there My servant will be also. Jn 12:26 ---Where's that???

  • ClassAvenger

    What is our eternal purpose? I believe it's worshipping God forever (I think I read that somewhere), unlike the JWs who think they will live here in Earth and everything will be perfect, and they will be able to marry and their neighbors will be good people. I dont think in heaven we are going to marry or something, anyways, what is our eternal purpose? Worship Him forever or live a life in happiness?

  • ellderwho

    I'll take a stab,

    Rev 7:9---"After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the lamb, clothed in white robes and palm branches in their hands"

    The WT says this refers to the "other sheep" mentioned in Jn 10:16. They will allegedly live forever on paradise earth.

    Contextually, the "great multitude" refers to those who become christians during the future Tribulation period -Rev 7:14 this is clear.

    No where in the text of Revelation does it say this "great multitude " is physically exempt from heaven and will live forever on paradise earth.

    Rev 7:9 explicitly refers to this group "standing before the throne and before the lamb" they are physically present before God.

    Rev 7:15 of the multitude "for this reason, they serve him day and night in his temple." Where is Gods temple??

    Ask the Jw to defend (scriptually) that the "great multitude" lives forever on a paradise earth.

    While your at it, ask the Jw why does the lamb receive worship in Rev 5:12-14, - 7:9,17 ??

  • mizpah


    As I recall, in the old literature the Watchtower applied the words "the meek shall inherit the earth" to the heavenly annointed class. The reasoning was that as the annointed become kings and priests along side Christ, they "inherit" the earth as part of their rule. Knowing this was the official view, I was always uncomfortable to use this scripture at the door to try to "prove" that God promised an earthly hope to mankind.

    Since leaving the organization, I have pondered about the "one hope" that Christians have regarding the future. It seems evident that the hope that early Christians entertained was heavenly. Yet, there is a strong indication that God's purpose would include the restoration of earth with humans on it. What are some of your thoughts on this?

  • mizpah


    I agree. That is the conclusion that I have reached, too. Interestingly, Russell taught that the "great crowd" was a secondary heavenly group. Rutherford is the one that changed it and linked it to the "other sheep." Under his tenure, a two class system was established. And the majority of Christians in the congregations were denied to partake of the "body and blood" of Christ at the Memorial.

    Most commentators note that the "other sheep" were probably the Gentile believers that joined their Jewish brethren in the Christian congregation. It makes sense. Jesus directed his apostles to preach only to the Jews and Jewish converts. But after his resurrection, the gospel was spread to all mankind. The "other sheep" joined the fold of the Jewish believers to become "one flock" under Christ.

  • ClassAvenger

    ellderwho: I told this person some time ago about the whole worshipping Christ thing and he said that it was a different type of worship. I'll make a post about this maybe later on...

    mizpah: I don't really know what to say to the restoration of earth with humans living here, I haven't studied the Bible much. I have a lot of catching up to do.

    Thanks guys.

  • ellderwho


    My understanding is that the "new earth" (Isa. 65:17;66:22; 2Pet. 3:13; Rev. 21:1) refers to the time after Christ reigns for a thousand years during the millennium. During that, Christ reigns in righteousness over the earth, but very few details are given.

    There certainly is alot of speculation about the millennial earth, but not Bible based.

    2cor.12:2 Pauls talks about being "caught up to the third heaven". Verse 4 he says "he was caught up into paradise" sounds like heaven and paradise are the same place.

    Rev 2:7 "To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."

    Rev 22 a picture of heaven is given and the tree of life is mentioned three times, v. 2,14,19 shows that paradise is synonymous with heaven.

    Jw's clearly teach that after Armageddon,(living Jws, btw. never paid for sin) they are the ones responsible for turning the ruined earth into a paradise, not just for themsleves but for billions past, to give them a "second chance."

    Hebrews 9:27 "and it is appointed unto men once to die...." If there were a second chance and people failed that test, they would have died twice? hmmm

  • AGuest
    What is our eternal purpose?

    To be a vessel... a "house"... in which the spirit of God dwells. In that "light", God becomes all things to all... with Christ the supreme ruler, since it will be he that INHERITS the kingdom entirely, forever and ever, versus those who rule with him for a mere 1,000 years (at the beginning of which Satan is bound).

    Will God then be done away with? Nope. He... will exist in ALL things, not just the Christ. HIS "tent"... will be with US, so that HE is the "temple" and not we any longer. We will then be in COMPLETE union with Him (God), by means of Christ. He in us... and we in Him.

    Ephesians 2:19-21; 1 Corinthians 3:16; Revelation 21:22; Romans 8:9

    That is the thing to which Christ is trying to lead us.

    As for the WTBTS total misteaching regarding the 144,000 and the great crowd, and how one is in heaven and one is on earth... BOTH are in heaven and BOTH are on earth... for heaven... establishes itself ON earth, by means of New Jerusalem. Eden... is that garden of that place and was once discernable on earth... and will be again. It was not done away with, but rather, made inaccessible. But that was only the garden; next, it is the entire City that "comes down out of heaven TO the earth."

    That is why Gog and Magog... who are ON earth... are able to attempt to come against it.

    Revelation 20:8, 9

    Here is what occurs:

    1. When my Lord returns, he will FIRST gather his chosen ones to take them with him to his marriage to them. Where? In heaven, in the "house" of the Most Holy One of Israel, his Father, JAH... of Armies. These include those who belonged to him but DIED during his invisible presence and are resurrected... to SPIRIT bodies (white {clean, incorruptible} robes), ... and those who belonged to him but did NOT die by the time he returned, and thus are changed... to SPIRIT bodies (white {clean, incorruptible} robes), in twinkling of an eye. Thus, they NEVER DIE, but are simply changed. They are changed because flesh with ITS blood... cannot enter into the kingdom. This... is the "first" resurrection.

    Who are these? They are... first... 144,000 "from AMONG THE SONS OF ISRAEL," 12,000 from each tribe, excluding Dan... AND... a great crowd of people from EVERY nation, tribe and tongue, including those left over from Israel (for ALL of Israel will be saved). BOTH groups make a nation of kings and priests, and BOTH groups "render sacred service" in the house... or dwelling place... or temple... of God. THIS was the "sacred secret" that resulted in Paul becoming an apostle... to the NATIONS: Israel first, and then, because of Israel's rejection of their king, the nations would replace them as become a "mighty nation", "a people for special possession."

    Matthew 24:31; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18; 1 Corinthians 15:42-54; Revelation 20:6; Revelation 7:4, 9, 15; Revelation 5:9, 10; Romans 11:1-36 (particularly verse 26)

    2. Once the marriage of the Lamb to His Bride has been accomplished, THEY... he and his bride... sit down on thrones to judge... the entire inhabited earth. Who are these that are judged? They are those who were NOT taken, NOT changed, but "abandoned at the well". They are judged NOT based on what they did... but how they treated Christ's brothers, his "bride".

    If they did good to such ones, they, too, are given white robes and granted entry into the City. If not, they are not destroyed (yet); they are simply CUT OFF from entry into the City. Why? Because... the TREE OF LIFE, from which anyone eating of it will LIVE FOREVER... is in that City. They are cut off from eating from that Tree, and thus, from living forever by means of it.

    Revelation 20:4-6; Matthew 25:31-46; Genesis 3:22, 23; Revelation 22:1, 2

    3. Once this separating of the sheep from the goats occur, the sheep are invited to the Lamb's marriage feast. However, at that event SOME of these sheep prove themselves to actually be goats: they exhibited goodwill toward Christ's brothers BEFORE entering into the feast, thus appearing to have on a marriage garment; however, AT the feast, it is revealed that they actually do NOT have on such garment, but rather have on inappropriate clothing. Thus, they are cast out of that event... into the darkness... OUTSIDE. They are not destroyed, but simply cast out. For the time being.

    John 14:2, 3; Matthew 22:1-14

    4. This separation covers a period of 1,000 years, during which Satan is bound. The co-rulers of Christ, while given authority to judge actually do NOT judge act as priests and sue for mercy on behalf of those who did NOT do good toward us. Why is this? Two (2) reasons: because we have been told to STOP judging, and we obey that directive, and because we know that with the same judgment WE are judging, we will BE judged. Since we don't want to BE judged, but rather, know that because we were shown mercy, we must SHOW mercy, we obey. So although we have AUTHORITY, we do not wield it, but actually imitate our Lord, who handed everything over to the Father. We, too, although having AUTHORITY, submit such authority to God and Christ. We do what Moses and Abraham did, and try to gain mercy for all. Whether one is judged a sheep or a goat, is left, then, to God and Christ.

    That is why although we all sit down on thrones TO judge, it is only our Lord who actually does. True, we are kings... but we are also priests. And mercy... is better than sacrifice. We are being taught that NOW... BEFORE we come into our kingdom. For we being taught to be sons... of God... and not sons... of the Devil.

    Matthew 7:1-5; Matthew 5:43-48; Revelation 20:4; Matthew 25:31

    5. Once this is done, then Satan is let loose and goes out to mislead those of mankind who were cut off, Gog, as well as those of the spirit realm who were cut off, Magog. Mislead them to do what? Come against the holy city (which is ON EARTH - "Let your kingdom be established and your will done... ON EARTH"). Why? Because within it lies the Tree of Life, from which any who eat of it will live forever. These MUST get to that tree and eat... in order to live. But God, cannot and does not, let that happen. Why? Because wickeness would REIGN, if such ones were allowed to exist forever.

    So, God allows them to "gather" and attempt an attack... on the plain of Megiddon (that area directly outside the City). But it is HE who ultimately annihilates them. THIS... is the War... Armageddon... which occurs AFTER THE THOUSAND YEARS HAVE ENDED. And even Satan is destroyed.

    Revelation 20:1, 7-10

    This is the "cleansing" of the heavens (of wicked spirit beings) and earth (of hateful, harmful fleshly beings)... the heavens and earth which are NOW... "stored up for fire." It is this fire, from heaven, that cleanses both the heavens AND the earth, by removing these evil ones. Why fire? Because of all the substances in the universe, fire is the ONLY one that cleanses completely. Sterilizes. Removes all corruption. And fire from heaven even removes spirits. It is not like the fire of this earth and thus, it can even destroy spirit beings.

    2 Peter 3:5-13; Matthew 10:28

    6. Once all of this has been completed, THEN comes "Judgment Day." My Lord turns the kingdom back over to my Father, who sits down on HIS throne... to judge "the living"... and the dead. This is when ALL, who weren't destroyed at Armageddon... but come before God's throne... and be judged. How is that carried out?

    1. My Father sits down and is given scrolls, wherein are written the deeds of ALL... good and bad. He is then given another scroll, wherein is written the names of those who belong to the Christ, those whom he PURCHASED with his blood.

    2. There is a massive resurrection, with the sea and Death and Hades giving up those in them.

    3. All of these come before the throne to be judged based on their deeds as written in the first set of scrolls. And all have deeds... good... and bad. Because the wage (cost; price) of sin is death... all should be judged and condemned to death based on their "bad" deeds. And ALL have bad deeds, because ALL... have sinned.

    4. However, if such one's name is written in the Book of the Lamb, the other scroll, whatever bad deeds that one has committed are BLOTTED OUT by means of the blood of the Lamb. Their "bad" deeds... are covered over. Thus, they are "without sin." The result? They are given a "white robe" (clean, incorruptible spirit body), and granted entry into the kingdom.

    5. BUT... if such one's name is NOT found written in the Lamb's book, then such one has NO COVERING for his/her sins. They remain. And thus, such one is judged based on such sins... and condemned. Not just to death, but to destruction. For the flesh dies, but the spirit must be destroyed. Their lot, then, is in the Lake of Fire, where they are destroyed forever.

    Revelation 20:11-15

    Once this process has been completed, my Father then hands the kingdom BACK to the Son... and HE (the Son) rules... forever and ever. His kingdom will not be handed over to anyone else. He is it. God then, manifests HIMself... in ALL of us, the "Christ" or "chosen" - my Lord is the Head... and we, his Body... and God, a "temple" in all of us... and we in Him. By means of this, then, we will have one thought, one purpose, one goal: to have righteousness (and no, that does not mean the pious type - "I'm better'n you" - but TRUE righteousness, where love rules)... in the entire existence.

    How do we get there? We must worship God... not just with our lips... but IN OUR HEARTS. And God... is love. Therefore... LOVE... must exist... must PREVAIL... IN OUR HEARTS... in order for God to reside there. We can talk like it, we can act like it. But if it ain't there, God ain't there. He can't be, for our heart is not "prepared" to house Him. And although we, earthling man, can't see whether another's heart is or is not prepared... God... and Christ... can. For there is NOTHING hidden from them. Nothing.

    I bid you peace.

    A slave of Christ,


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