What would you say?

by Freedom rocks 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • LongHairGal


    I really have no desire to get any old friends out of the JW religion. I’m just glad I’m out.

    If they really pressed me as to the real reasons I’m not there, I would give them a list:...not accepting of anybody’s divine claims; not believing that modern day events are proof the JW religion is chosen or fulfillment of any scripture; issues about them claiming no clergy when they have a plain clothes clergy; unacceptable attitudes towards women and responsible working people; serious gossiping and unchristian attitudes in religion; intrusiveness of elders overstepping boundaries AND the 1995 Generation teaching.

    There are probably more but these are the ones that mattered to me - especially the last one.

  • OnTheWayOut

    Yeah, add Deut. 18:22 to my previous answer.

  • EverApostate

    What would you do if you want to buy a car. Would you only read what the cars official website says or would you visit any Generic review sites like Edmunds or Carfax ?

    Do you expect that Businesses would publicly display their past errors. If not why. Can the same be said of JW.org ?

  • Freedom rocks
    Freedom rocks

    Great illustration everapostate, I may use that

  • Vanderhoven7

    Me: I couldn't be a JW because your religion isn't biblical.

    JW: What do you mean? What is unbiblical about our religion?

    Me: Every doctrine which is unique to Jehovah's Witnesses.

    JW: Examples please:

    Me: Sure

    1. Is it biblical to say the sounding of the 7 trumpets introduced in Revelation 8: 1-7 got underway at a Bible Student convention in Cedar Point, Ohio in 1922? Is this fact found in the Bible? (so speculation???)

    When the sounding of the seven trumpets got under way in 1922, the Bible Student convention at Cedar Point, Ohio, (Rev.8:7) featured a talk by the president of the Watchtower Society, J. F Rutherford, based on the scripture, ”The Kingdom of Heaven is at Hand.” Revelation Its Grand Climax at Hand. p. 172

    2. Is it biblical to say that the 144,000 were numerically complete in 1935? (No we don't believe that anymore). But you taught that for over 70 years till 2007! (so speculation???)

    "Logically, the calling of the little flock would draw to a close when the number was nearing completion, and the evidence is that the general gathering of these specially blessed ones ended in 1935." (Watchtower 1995 Feb 15 p.19)

    3. Is it biblical to say that the Great Crowd of Revelation 7 was forming in 1935?

    How do you know this? Is 1935 in the Bible? How was this information conveyed? How old are those conventioneers today...if the average age was 20 back then? How many have died not going through the tribulation?

    The Watchtower had expressed the hope that a convention scheduled for May 30 to June 3, 1935, in Washington, D.C., U.S.A., would be “a real comfort and benefit” to those pictured by Jehonadab. And that it proved to be! In a stirring talk on “The Great Multitude,” delivered to about 20,000 conventioneers, J. F. Rutherford ... declared: “Behold! The great multitude!” There was a hush, followed by loud cheering.”Watchtower May 1, 2001 pp.14-15 “Behold! The Great Crowd

    4. Is it biblical to say that the apostle Peter ascended to heaven in the spring of 1918? (???) Is 1918 a biblical date? How do you know this? (so speculation???)

    “In 1918 he (the apostle Peter) was resurrected to the heavens along with the other faithful members of Christ’s congregation who had died prior to that time. WT Feb. 15, 1966 p. 123 Does Peter Now Use the Keys of the Kingdom?

    5. Is it biblical to say that Jesus Christ concluded an investigative judgment in the fall of 1918?

    Did that judgment result in Jesus rejecting every church on earth with the exception of your organization? (???)

    How do you know this? Is this in the Bible?

    “When Jesus came to God’s spiritual temple in 1918 for the purpose of judging men, Christendom was rejected.The Watchtower, August 1, 1960, p. 462

    6. Is it biblical to say that Jesus Christ appointed a Faithful and Discrete Slave at headquarters in Brooklyn New York in 1919? (???) How do you know this? Is this in the Bible? What were the names of those original selected ones? On what grounds were they selected? Do you know what the Bible Students were teaching and practicing in 1919?

    “On arriving’ to inspect the ‘slave’ in 1918, Christ found a spirit-anointed remnant of faithful disciples who since 1879 had been using this journal [the Watchtower] and other Bible-based publications to provide spiritual ‘food at the proper time.’ He acknowledged them as his collective instrument, or ‘slave,’ and in 1919 entrusted them with the management of all his earthly belongings.”Watchtower 2007 Apr 1 p.22

    7. Is it biblical to say that people who saw the events of 1914 will be around to witness the introduction of a new system of things... and that God promised this?

    "Most importantly, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new order before the generation that saw the events of 1914 C.E. passes away." Awake Masthead 1982 – 1995

    How could the 1914 generation logically be the the generation that does not pass away when the youngest of that generation are 103 or older today?

    8. Is it biblical to say that God will destroy billions of people at Armageddon who do not believe that the organization of JWs is God's channel of communication and that it's leaders in New York collectively represent the Faithful and Discrete Slave Jesus spoke about?

    "Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." (Watchtower, September 1, 1989 p. 19)

  • steve2

    Two strong impressions in most replies:

    • Over-use of factual material
    • Under use of emotion.

    The greatest persuader is not factual information but use of targeted emotion.

  • Incognito

    Although this doesn't address the OP's question, I consider this is related to the topic.

    In addition to other control tactics, another thing that was 'instilled' in us as JWs, is a belief we are responsible for changing other people's religion and beliefs.

    As JWs, we were convinced to preach to others to convert them to become JWs as 'the truth' to save them. We were warned we would be held blood-guilty by God if we didn't participate in that 'life-saving' work.

    As we find it unwelcome when JWs attempt to preach and attempt to get us to return to the religion, likewise JWs reject attempts to influence them to change their beliefs.

    Now as exJWs, it seems we often feel it is our duty to convert JWs into becoming exJWs. If they are happy in what they believe, should we then allow them to practice their beliefs as they wish?

  • venus

    Here is an organization that claims to represent Jehovah "who never changes" (Mal 3:6) yet continues to make changes in its teaching. Do you think you can reconcile these two things?

  • slimboyfat

    (If I could fit this in 2 minutes and if it applied to the person)

    1. I like you anyway whatever you decide because my admiration for you as a person goes beyond whatever you believe or practice religiously.

    2. I know you are a person who cares about the truth. And if you want to prove whether JWs have the truth or not you will do that yourself, and you don't need me to do it for you.

    3. Experts in relevant fields have considered and rejected JW claims on chronology, evolution and whatever else. There's lots of specific information available from real experts on these subjects. Watchtower literature distorts and misunderstands a lot of these issues.

    4. More people are leaving JWs now than ever before and JWs are beginning to decline in many countries. There is lots of support from other people leaving or who have left already, if you need it, online and locally, probably including people you have known as JWs in the past. You might be surprised how many people you know who have already left or want to leave.

    5. When people eventually leave JWs a very common thing they say is they wish they left when they were younger and didn't waste so much time in the religion. As 1914 recedes further into history, and the "generation" gets stretched out even more, the GB are only going to get crazier and more demanding as time goes on.

  • stuckinarut2

    Wow Steve2!

    Your comments on the previous page were brilliant!

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