deegee: you are right, I forgot..
Old Navy;The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference....Richard Dawkins
Verifiable proof of Jesus' existance outside the Bible
by unsure 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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_Morpheus
@unsure- and THAT is precisely why i choose to worship Thor. There is 1000x more evidence of Thor's existence than jesus. I see lightning. I hear thunder. Thus i choose to worship Thor as opposed to some carpenter who some claimed was coming back 2,000 years ago.
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Crazyguy
Zero, none, absolutely no evidence. The christs quotes that many Christians use are of people after Jesus supposed time on this planet. These Christ quotes could be used in conjunction with other gods like Serapis or Helios. Josephus quote in one area is a forgery and in other parts of his writings he's clearly talking about a different guy. Reasons why they know it's a forgery is one they way it's written and two he clearly would have never referred to Jesus as the messiah because as a lackey of the emperor he said he was the messiah.
Now with that being said there is some evidence that maybe there was a guy that was a rebel leader of the Jews that parts of the Jesus story was modeled after. There's some really interesting information about the shroud of Turin and the ruling family of a small kingdom in eastern Turkey. There's also some compelling evidence that Paul was also modeled after some previous real characters like Saul of Tarsus.
One last point if you want to understand Christianity explore ancient Egyptian religion and the Osiris cult. Many of the things one finds familiar in Christianity like baptism, anointing, Holy Spirit, paradise, heaven , resurrection, eternal life, etc all come from this much older religion. Now before you dismiss this idea because you've seen or read rebuttals about Horus being Jesus don't. Because Jesus wasn't Horus at least not a perfect composite. Jesus was more modeled after Osiris.
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venus
The greatest miracle is that the man who supposedly performed many miracles and supposedly brought the very separation of history into BC and AD left no historical proof of himself having ever passed through history!
If scholars admit now that certain portions of the Bible are added later (such as those now put into brackets), it casts doubt on rest of the portions too.
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venus
Jesus supposedly foretold vaguely many unfavorable things for his disciples in the last days (Mathew 24) ; yet failed to foretell the favorable development of Internet which can positively affect the preaching of his gospel--something that is impossible if he were really a historical person.
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never a jw
You seem to want to believe that Jesus existed. Not much evidence, but most experts believe that he did. Now the important question is, was he divine? For that question the evidence is a big ZERO, but two billion people believe it today. It's a matter of faith, or if I use a synonymous sentence, it's a matter of gullibility. Faith is put in our heads at a time when we are the most gullible, when we are children, so most of us were subject to religious indoctrination and evidence was never offered. Faith, humility, hope, obedience are not virtues. They are tools other humans use to control you.
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breakfast of champions
Jesus goes from age 12-30 without any word of what happened in between, not one word from a friend or neighbor.
There's a song about that. . . .
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_Morpheus
And just to go along with "never a jw",
The question isnt really did a guy named jesus from the city of nazathreth ever live and die in the first century CE, although as we have already seen there is zero evidence of it, The import of the question is was this supposed character divine, the son of god, a prophet or something more than one of billions of humans who have lived and died on this world.
not only is there zero reason to believe he lived there is zero reason to think that even if he did he was anything more than a guy. The same evidance that mohamed was just a guy. Nothing special or divine about any of them. No evidance to suggest that anything they said was more special or unique than anything written on this forum.
if it tickles you (the plural to whom it may concern sense of the word) to believe in fairy tales then have fun! In the end this thread will result in exactly zero evidance that jesus of nazareth ever lived and zero evidance he was a prophet or anything more than a guy.
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scratchme1010
Many believers say there is verifiable proof of Jesus' existence outside of the Bible.
Please post this proof.
It has been well proven that Jesus of Nazareth existed. That man was a real person. Jesus the miracle maker, son of god, walking on water, reviving people and turning water into wine, for that there's no proof.
From the Wikipedia:
"The main accounts of the life and teachings of Jesus are third party narratives written years after his death. The Christian Testament represents sources that have become canonical for Christianity, and there are many apocryphal texts that are examples of the wide variety of writings in the first centuries AD that are related to Jesus. Many scholars have questioned the authenticity and reliability of these sources, and few events that are mentioned in the gospels are universally accepted.
Non-Christian sources which are used to study and establish the historicity of Jesus include Jewish sources such as Josephus and Roman sources such as Tacitus. These sources are compared to Christian sources, such as the Pauline Letters and the Synoptic Gospels, and are usually independent of each other; for example, the Jewish sources do not draw upon the Roman sources. Similarities and differences between these sources are used in the authentication process."
When it comes to the reliability of the Bible as it refers to Jesus and his teachings there are differences of opinions (some of which have caused wars and death).
My own belief is that Such person existed, but he wasn't what Christianity says he was.
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unsure
So what I've gathered so far is that to believe in the Deity of Jesus, requires pure faith and speculation. However, to be saved from Adamic Sin and have a hope for eternal life, I have to believe in the Deity of Jesus.
Hardly seems fair.
Very depressing and frustrating.