Question about an elder and if I am crazy

by life is to short 40 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • bikerchic

    Hi LITS!

    You've gotten some great responses here so far and the only thing I have to add is what many have already told you......NO YOU'RE NOT CRAZY!

    Another think is keep reading this site anything that interest you and eventually you'll see that giving up the cult is the best way to sanity! I might suggest you read all you can from Barbara Anderson on the child abuse issues and AndersonsInfo. That will help clear up a lot for you I'm sure.

    Happy reading!

    ~ Kate

  • Simon

    Sorry, but I think you are crazy ... to keep going.

    Why? Why do that to yourself? do you somehow, despite all these very obvious indications, believe that they are god-directed?

    Just stop going - vote with your feet (it's the only vote you have). Why would you want to go to such a place and put yourself in that situation again and again? Tell everyone you care about why you won't be going anymore and then don't go.

    YOU have choices and you are allowed to chose what is best for you.

  • hoser

    The elder in question is a bully. A worthless piece of s#%t.

    We had an "elder" like that in one congregation we were in. My wife said something in passing about no one at the service arrangement one time.

    This guy took it as a personal threat/insult to his wife and himself.

    He hauled us into the back room and reamed the shit out of both of us.

    This guy is a circuit overseer now.

    To answer your question lits. You are not crazy. This cult is crazy and sick. It rewards abusive individuals by enabling and promoting them.

  • Giordano

    I understand LITs. This was...... is(?) your community and you wanted them to be your family and your friends. But they didn't reciprocate.

    In fact quit the opposite. JW's can become very judgmental overnight because ultimately they are unable to think for themselves when it comes to the Elders.....many of whom are on power trips.

    You are very sensitive to the child abuse issue so trying to deal with the revelation that your congregation had Three Known abusers and none of the Elders were protecting the children must have brought back your own abuse. The creepy Elder as well as that pack of Elders placed you squarely in the wrong when you were clearly on the side of right. But consider this the entire JW followers who ignore and or disbelieve that children are being violated are in the wrong....all of them. In doing so your congregation violated Jesus's words when he said; "let the children come to me and do not hinder them."

    The Society loves Jesus's two witness rule but systematically allows the children to be 'hindered' by sexual child abusers. I left because of the idiot ban on blood that has killed tens of thousands. Now I have learned over the past years that they also have a huge pedophile problem that also has harmed thousands of children.

    If you need to worship and pray to god in a spiritual setting your not getting it with the JW's. In fact they have made you an outcast and a crank. Find a better group to worship with.

    If you are a strong JW believer worship in private.

    You have a clear message that needs to be heard by people who have experienced abuse........... find a local or online support group for sexually abused people. One that has meetups from time to time.

    Make new friends who will understand your deep feelings, concerns and commitment for those who were abused.

  • flipper

    LITS- You're a great friend to me and my wife. We consider you family. It's truly a huge injustice that you've been suffering all these years. You've received lots of caring , fantastic comments from people on the board. You know we will be here for you through thick and thin.

    You aren't crazy- you are suffering from PTSD which many of us have suffered after being through various abuses in this evil criminal organization. Some have suffered MORE abuses like yourself because like you mentioned you haven't had any support system for years as well as not receiving support from your JW husband. He is still under control of the elders and in fear of what will happen if he stops going to meetings. YOU don't have to have the same fear he has- you know and realize the WT Society is a corrupt organization- your husband has not admitted that to himself- he thinks these problems are isolated situations. As some here mentioned- these child abuse problems are happening in the THOUSANDS of cases worldwide as we are sitting here - it's a pandemic which indicates HOW corrupt the WT Society is top to bottom as one poster wrote.

    Like Hoser wrote before me- " This cult is crazy and sick. It rewards abusive individuals by enabling them and promoting them. " That's really the point in a nutshell. It's like- we can't fix a broken organization that is corrupt from the top down. We have to ask ourselves - Could Jim Jones be fixed ? No. Could David Koresh be fixed ? No. Charles Manson ? No. Ted Jaracz or Anthony Morris III ? No. These types of sociopathic individuals do not believe in the freedom of mind of people like you and me- their goals in life were and are to CONTROL and ABUSE the freedoms in men, women, and children and they teach their henchmen ( the elders and C.O. 's ) to think EXACTLY as they think. One of the reasons for elders schools- right ? They aren't going to change- they are unfixable . But you can change by not letting them have ANY power in your life anymore.

    I know it's hard . I've never ever suffered sexual abuse like you have my friend- but as I write this I honestly have JW fanatic family members still alive who shun me and treat me with utter disrespect . They act like I don't exist. They've never valued my opinions on anything in life. And these people who are psychological vampires in your life where you live have not ever treated you with the respect you deserve either. You fully need to realize this and cut them out of your life. It may mean cutting ties with people you've known for a long time. Only you know how much of this you can take before you implode mentally and emotionally. I feel you've gotten to that point

    You are at a crossroad in life that many of us face at times and my wife and I will support you in whatever decision you make. But please keep your emotional, physical, and mental health as a priority in your decision making process. We're here for you as well as friends if you'd like to chat, you know that. We care very much for you and our biggest hope for you is to finally find happiness. And as you know now- it takes courage to attain that goal in life many times. Hang in there, take care, love and hugs to you , Mr. & Mrs. Flipper

  • Wasanelder Once
    Wasanelder Once

    Sorry for your pain. Too much information. I think people read this out of morbid curiosity. Just hang up and move on. You wind yourself up and make it worse. Posts like this are helpful because someone will read them and give good advice. For me it just becomes a blur after awhile as it shows repeated abuse and you enabling the creeps by returning to it. Take a breath and move on.

  • freddo

    Me again ... sorry to be a bore.

    Don't forget that these elders will tell you that if you watch Scooby-Doo or Harry Potter then a demon will come and live down the back of your sofa.

    That is how crazy they are!

  • millie210

    I have 3 things to say.

    1) You are not crazy

    2) YOU are not crazy

    3) YOU are NOT crazy!

    There is a complete difference between being crazy and being in a crazy situation.

    I dont know what country you are in but in the U.S. there exists a fundamentalist group called F.L.D.S. (Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints). This group has a very patriarchal arrangement that surprisingly has some strong parallels to certain "pockets" of elder bodies.

    The women who have escaped these groups are getting very vocal and making their presence known. Some have been interviewed on talk shows and others have written books. You can find this on line if you are curious.

    The thing is, this whole "make the little woman think shes crazy" thing is NOT uncommon among certain religious groups.

    You can find this approach among the Amish too.

    Lots of splinter religions whose leaders have exploited the congregation members sexually and emotionally (while being repressed sexually themselves) by their own interpretation of scripture.

    It is a dynamic unto itself.

    That gimpy elder that followed you seems strangely infantile and immature. Just because he wears a suit of clothing that says "elder" means nothing. If you could see him from afar you might find that he looks very impotent from a distance.

    Im so glad you are writing here. Even though we are all posting and not standing in front of you we ARE here, which means you are not alone.

    We exist and we are real people and we are your friends. Most definitely.

  • life is to short
    life is to short

    Thanks everyone for your responses, I totally get that it is a very sick religion and even though the older ones are nice they are brain washed and even being around them puts me into a depression. I feel for them through as many of them are just left on their own after years of slaving for the religion and yet they cannot see it for what it is. As sad as it is it is not my responsibility to help them or befriend them especially when then are encouraging me to come back.

    I think that is what hit me last night, I know Mrs. Flipper told me to call off the dinner and in hindsight it would have probably been better to do that as I just did not know it would depress me so much. The creepy elder is really looked up to so much.

    The other day it totally hit me that if all of this was happening in a work place environment that it would be deemed harassment if not even sexual harassment. I goggled the word harassment and it describes the depression I am going through of the person being harassed.

    The frustrating thing is that unlike in a work place where you can get legal help religions have first amendment rights so they can do anything they like and there is nothing really you can do to stop them.

    I am going to do what Simon suggested and even stop going to the memorial with my husband, just going once a year is HUGE STRESS to me. It is just hard to be in a divided home.

    I realized also like some said on this thread that I have ptsd, I never really bought into all of that before I always thought ptsd was put on by many to just get by with copping out on life, but man just hearing that creeps voice sent chills down me, it is also so frustrating that there is nothing in the laws of this land that prevents child molesters from gaining trust in a religion and getting to be around kids. The laws leave it totally up the the leaders of the church to handle it. There should be a law against the two witness rule and elders talking to children alone once they say they have been molested.

    I have to realize there is nothing I can do. The police have told me that, one cop told me to never go back to the church as he thought it was so horrible but there is noting anyone can do until another child gets harmed and the powers to be a Bethel know that. And if a child does come forward the elders like I mentioned will talk to the child alone and destroy what they can and in all like hood by traumatizing the child.

    It is just so sad and frustrating, but thanks everyone for your replays. I also realized that I needed to find a counselor who can really help me, I had been going to one but like I told OTWO she was telling me her problems also, I was confused as I was gong to her for help yet it was like friends meeting and sharing problems. OTWO said that really should not be happening. This new one is not doing that, she is confirming that I do have trauma that I have been hiding and you just cannot do that you have to address it or it keeps coming back. I really am trying to work through this, I just do not get it because before the creepy elder called in April I really did feel I had made progress and then to fall back like I did I know I have a lot more to work on.

    Again thank all who have answered and sorry to be such a basket case.


  • flipper

    It is incredibly mean and cowardly to undermine a person's sanity and self worth. Those people are beyond contempt.

    LITS, you are geographically isolated from any real friends, and trying to fight with a bunch of piranhas. Pretty small and worthless people, but lots of them.

    I think you have a lot more trauma to work through than most of us. Like combining the bad experiences of 20 of us. It will take some work and counseling to disconnect from these toxic people but I am sure you will, and soon.

    It was bad enough that you were raised as a child with constant abuse both physical and emotional from your parents and jws.

    Then to have the undermining of your self confidence continued by your passive-aggressive husband - he not only encouraged other jws to discount you as a person, but has gaslighted you, telling you your thinking is skewed, your memory is faulty. He either "doesn't remember" some godawful shit he did, or it was a long time ago, or it was no big deal.

    Well it was all a really big deal. You recently interviewed several counselors and found a good one. It takes some courage to dive into this shit. It all comes back to the surface to be dealt with. Not loads of fun.

    Knowing you for 9 years now, I have no doubt that a lot of people would have been driven nuts early on by what you went through. It is something that you have kept your kindness, honesty and sense of humor intact.

    Keep on keepin' on! Talk soon. Mrs. Flipper

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