by shotgun 51 Replies latest watchtower bible
ruebenfine
Thanks for your criticism for my typographical errors but I am to lazy to proofread sometimes and in my haste to post I simply go with the flow. Let me assure you that in my academic work I pay much more attention to spelling, punctuation and grammar. But really this is not a academic forum but purely one for discussion and conversation.
scholar
BA MA Studies in Religion
scholar
Because the elder I study with will only recongnize Wt. publications thats all I can show him about chronology. I started a collection about a year ago and cannot find any years of rulers after king Nebuchadrezzar(wt.624-582) until Nabonidus(wt.556-539).The Wt. does not show a rule for Naboplassar. At least not in the Insight books.
But I did find a list in "Babylon the great has fallen" 1963 wtbs, page 184 There Evil-marodach is given two years of rule.
Neriglassar is given four years of rule.
And Labashi-Marduk is given nine months.
However when I show him the simple math of rulers by wt years It would be as follows: The end of Nebuchadrezzer 582bc
Evil-merodach-582-580 (2years)
Neriggissar--580-576 (4years)
Labashi-Marduk- 9 months 575 (1year)
By this math I cannot reach the year that the wt says Nabonidus ruled 556-539 (17 years).
Shotgun,
maybe your elder would know the answer.
Scholar, maybe you can help with this math?
Way to go shotgun... very impressive. Unfortunately you can't "win" with elders... they will DF or DA you if you fight it too hard.
Having your faith "shattered" by the WTS is not uncommon, I don't think. I re-evaluated all of my religious beliefs (even the existence of god) after leaving the WTS.
Hi elderwho
I have spent many hours pouring over the chronology.....I too come up with the same conclusions as you. The elder I was talking too would not know...The first elders who met with me several months ago where stumped when I showed them this, they marked down all the scriptures I showed them and then never mentioned it again...I then showed them that according to WT chronology Daniel would have been somewhere around 95 in the third year of Cyrus rule 535..the last mention of him and also that the Jews who had returned and were rebuilding the temple in 518 would have been between 95 and 100 if the temple was destroyed in 607 when over 500years prior to this David had said mans lifespan was 70-80 years. Did it seem reasonable that captivity would lengthen instead of shorten your life.
If scholar and the WTBTS are correct it means there has been a concerted effort by Egyptians, Babylonians, Assyrians and the Jewish nation for 2600 years to conceal and hide the evidence needed to support the WT claims.
I do know that Jesus had the book of Daniel and he never mentioned using chronology to mark his return. The apostles had the Holy spirit even bringing ones back from the dead, they never mentioned using chronology to pinpoint his return.
Does it seem reasonable that such an accurate time indicator would be in the bible, why would Jesus give his main adversary the Devil the needed info to pinpoint his return. Maybe the angels have no comprehension of human language...hardly they spoke with many faithful ones throughout the scriptures.
Why did Satan wait until after he was thrown out of heaven to create such a stir. If you knew someone stronger than you was coming and basically going to throw you out of your apartment would you create more havoc with all his belongings before or after he arrives...or did Satan because he's read the scriptures and he's so submissive wait until the appointed times of the nations had been fulfilled before starting to take vengence on the earth.
Why did Jesus on his way to Jerusalem the very last time tell the Apostles that they were going there so that all the remaining phrophecies concerning the Messiah might be fulfilled. This would include Daniels and all the other prophets before Christ. The only ones left were the ones he said concerning the last days of the Jewish system of things which he fulfilled right down to the letter up to 70CE when that system was destroyed during a great tribulation which as Jesus stated had not occurred before , No nor would occur again. What does No nor will occur again mean...maybe sometime again or except in its second fulfillment which the spirit filled apostles knew nothing about but an earnest businessman and a lawyer would piece together 2000 years later with the help of the bible and the pyramids. Its no wonder the Finished Mystery stated C.T Russell had a headache everyday for twenty years...I've had one everyday for 6 months reading his thoughts on paper.
Scholar can you provide the names for the missing 20 years in babylonian chronology to support the 607 date. You said you have 30 years invested in this research...share your finds with us...just the names and dates of the rulers and where this info can be found. I am truly open to dig back into my research if needed, the reason I started digging originally was to bolster my beliefs not fuel my doubts into a raging forest fire.
Scholar postulates: "its teachings are based upon three elements: Bible, Tradition and Magisterium...So if it does make doctrines or teachings for the faithful then it is doing so under the guidance and spirit direction of our Lord and Savior."
Sounds like something right out of the Catholic Church, the exact same claims.
elderwho
You express concern about trying to reconciling Babylonian reigns with WT chronology. This is a interesting exercise because the Bible itself does not give the same record as the Canon of Ptolemy. The BIble only metions a few kings and years of conjunction between those kings and the kings of Judah. So, we can only use this information and construct a schema that harmonizes the total biblical hustorical position. If you try to reconcile that schema with the accepted reign os the Babylonians then they do not synchronize, so we have a problem. Then you have to make a judgement as ti what chronology is the most accurate, trustworthy without sacrificing sound biblical exegesis particularly in respect to the seventy years and the beginning of the reign of Nebuchadnezzer. You then must do a loy of study but you wlll as I have done that the Society has provided much information on this subject to provide a sound basis for faith in our sound and beautiful chronology.
scholar
BA MA Studies in Religion
shotgun
I cannot provide you with the missing links or link in respect to the profane chronology, my interst is in the sacred chronology whereupon a complete list of the reigns of the Divided Monarchy are given. There is a gap of some twenty years but that is a problem not for me but for those who advocate the profane chronology. I am interested in the data contained in the Bible and only that, the secular data is of some interest but if it is problematic then let it remain so . Rolf Furuli in his new book may well enlighten us all in respect of the Babylonians if that really interests you.
scholar BA MA Studies in Religion
Kenneson
If my hermeneutic tripod resembles that of the Roman Catholic Church then so be it.
scholar
BA MA Studies in Religion
Hey Shotgun!
Glad to see you asking questions! Obviously, the R&F do not have too many answers! Is that any surprise?
I’m in a similar position as you folks. Elders and others are stopping by on a daily-basis! Anyway, hope you can put these jerks on edge! When you separate these guys from the Bible and their publications, they don’t know what to say! They become speechless! Why is that? Oh yea, they can’t seem to answer ANY questioning of their beliefs! Anyway, although many have given-up on the Bible, I wouldn’t dismiss it that quickly! Please consider that it may be basically true and every man a liar!
Thank you for posting your experience! "We’re" with ya man! ( I love this board! You can express what how you feel at any time!) Let us know what happens in the coming weeks! Don’t dismiss the Bible that quickly—although I can understand how that could happen! Many have the left the Bible behind. However, regardless of this, we accept whatever choice you and your wife make! Thanks for "visiting" with "us."
scholar----------- "the Society has provided much information on this subject to provide a sound basis for faith in our sound and beautiful chronology."
Since the Societys inception, its been guided or looked over, lead, directed by, inspected by Jehovahs "active force" and it is assumed the "governing body" is the "Faithful and discreet slave" Does the FDS at some point, pass on to the writing department, "inspired thoughts" to be transcribed into books, Watchtower periodicals, or any other form to "feed the flock" ?
My personal line of reasoning would be this, that assuming the role of "faithful and discreet slave" would be a very heavy burden. Esspecially an Organization wanting to be recongnized as the only "truth" here on earth.
So the next question would be, from whom does the Faithful and discreet slave obtain their information?
If, Jehovah is telling the FDS things to tell the flock, dont you think that he(yahweh) would make sure that the flock is not misinformed by the "slave" passing on misinformation?
If, what you say in quotes is true, then all we have as "real truth" comes from the FDS.
