The "Imperfect Men" Argument

by steve2 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  ToesUp

  So they are imperfect and we have to accept that?

  When a member of the congregation is sitting in front of 3 "imperfect men" at their judicial committee and they are getting raked over the coals, does WT sweep it aside as the member is "imperfect" and they accept that? NOPE! The congregation member is grilled for in depth details of the so called "sin." Once they decide your fate, you are publicly humiliated again in front of the entire congregation with your name mentioned. Whether it is DF'ing or public reproof. Everything in WT land flows one way, Watchtowers way!
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  notsurewheretogo

  The GB members are "just men" and are prone to imperfections like all of us.

  They may swear in their head when they hit their toe on the end of their bed...they may do a double-take when a women enters the room with a low cut top (or in Tony's case a man wearing tight pants) etc etc BUT when they come together as the GB, and they pray, and supposedly the great Holy Spirit "directs" (not inspire remember) them to teachings, doctrines or policies then it CAN NEVER be wrong because their imperfections have nothing to do with the Holy Spirit directing them.

  If things are wrong it MUST be the Holy Spirits fault and not the GB because they say the Spirit is directing them.

  The fact that they get things wrong shows without a shadow of doubt that nothing supernatural or "god like", no divine intervention or any direction comes upon them at all.

  They are just imperfect men teaching 8 million people what THEY think the bible means...they are wrong and they are imperfect...but being imperfect has NO bearing...or should not have IF they are "directed" by Holy Shite...er Spirit.

  They recently admitted they are not infalliable or inspired thus there is no direction from any higher source....ergo it is a MANS religion.

  Game over man...game over...I'm out.
• 

  sir82

  BUT when they come together as the GB, and they pray, and supposedly the great Holy Spirit "directs" (not inspire remember) them to teachings, doctrines or policies then it CAN NEVER be wrong because their imperfections have nothing to do with the Holy Spirit directing them.

  Huh....

  In another religion that is known as "papal infallibility", a doctrine the GB has ridiculed extensively.

  Is it karma, or irony, or schaudenfreude, or something else, when you become the very thing you have reviled the most.
  
• 

  FedUpJW

  (the real definition of "morality", not the WTS corruption of "morality" as simply "sexual chastity")

  Not to hijack a thread...I thought I was the only one who got that point.
  
• 

  LongHairGal

  STEVE:

  Yes, their own teachings nowadays would never stand up to scrutiny!

  How could anybody possibly believe for one minute that these men have any divine connection?

  I hope everybody here is making their exit plans and not wrestling with the idea of whether or not these people have any real divine authority. Some might actually be in “awe”...It’s laughable because I never really was and never believed “Holy Spirit” had anything to do with it - but I’m sure some on here actually feel this way. Well, I’m sorry for them if they do.
• 

  smiddy3

  If they are spirit directed ,appointed by God ,have Holy Spirit upon them , how can anyone use the excuse they are imperfect men who make mistakes ?

  Their is absolutely no logic to those opposing claims .

  At least the Roman Catholic Church covered their ASS with this dilemma.

  When the Pope issues a { "Papal Bull of Doctrine and Faith" } that is a truth that is engraved in stone so to speak a truth that cannot be changed .

  It does not cover everything the Pope says at any given time.

  However the Pope can make an utterance as a human being that is not a "Papal Bull" and he can make mistakes being human.

  The JW/WT/GB deceive their members misrepresenting the R.C.Church by claiming the Pope makes errors himself knowing full well the distinction the RC Church has in what the Pope says and what a "Papal Bull" means .and they dont inform JW`s of that distinction.

  The sin of Omission
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  Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

  I'll never forget what @doubtful1799 once said to me when I complained about the "but they're just imperfect men" argument. He said something to the effect of:

  "That's the thing. NO ONE is asking them to be perfect. We're just asking them to be accountable."

  
  
• 

  WTWizard

  Imperfection might excuse a simple mistake. Say, if someone regifted something you gave them (which was not an offense), and later regretted doing that and lies about losing the item. In a case like that, forgiving the incident is the best thing to do since it will stop it from going any farther. Imperfection could excuse that.

  But, if someone is doing things on purpose, with the intent of ruining your life, simple imperfection cannot excuse that. There simply is no forgiveness for someone doing things on purpose, wishing to ruin your whole life. The hounders that hound someone incessantly to quit their jobs and pious-sneer when doing so is obviously not wise and would result in financial disaster would probably fit this category, especially if they know that the victim is not financially well off and is trying to stave off unemployment. Or, when the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger cuts off people from advancing simply because a family member goes to college (perhaps to develop work skills or to prepare for getting a real job). Such are doing things on purpose, with intent of creating real hardship. No forgiveness for this.
  
• 

  eyeuse2badub

  One thing that I’ve been able to observe during my lifetime (71+years) and especially when I was a jw is: People are going to believe what they want to believe regardless of what the FACTS show!

  "The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction." -- Feb 2017 Watchtower

  WT 11/15/13 pg 20 para 17

  At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.

  
  

  Wt February 2017 Study edition pg 23 para 12

  The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact, the Watch Tower Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870.

  WT June 2017 Study edition page 30 para. 15

  What is our response to divinely authorized headship? By our respectful cooperation, we show our support for Jehovah’s sovereignty. Even if we do not fully understand or agree with a decision, we will still want to support theocratic order.

  But what if the GB is wrong and someone loses their life? What if they are wrong about our stance on the blood? Remember, they were wrong on the organ transplant issue and many brothers and sisters died? Are they blood guilty?

  So if Jehovah directs the GB, and the GB get things wrong, then does that mean that Jehovah was having a bad day when he told them those wrong things? Or,

  Does it mean that Jehovah deliberately reveals 'false truth'? Or,

  Does it mean that Jehovah is not really directing the GB at all?

  If you went through some sort of time warp from the 1960's till now, you'd hardly recognize this jw ''religion'' anymore. Music videos, cartoon characters, debit and credit card machines set-up ''conveniently throughout the facility'' at the regional conventions. Idolizing of the governing body members, it sure parallels other religions and the things we jw’s use to condemn!
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  They will tell you that the difference between "inspired" and "spirit-directed" is that the exact words of the inspired were God's because they were in direct contact with God, and that the spirit-directed ones are doing their best to understand God's guidance but are not in direct contact.
  
  But really, why would God do it one way for Jews then Christians in the day, but totally different now? There is no real difference between the two terms except that the GB wants allowance for changing the doctrines.