God and the afterlife. Do you need to believe in both

by moley 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Transhumanists seem to believe in a sort of afterlife without God.

  • waton
    waton
    In the beginning (time has a beginning), God created the heavens (space) and the earth (matter).

    Perry, you are in peril of being wrong.

    Time is eternal. there always was time ( Einstein's 4st dimension). Nothing can exist without time, and there was energy, which required time to exist, from which our universe was made. and

    Genesis 1, you cited as proof is wrong, There was matter before the Earth, and our planet was not created at the beginning, but 10 billion years later.

    Energy and time are eternally infinite, ---, incomprehensible? yes, but get used to it, it is over our horizon.

    There are a few experiences I’ve had in my llife: moley.

    Holy moley, I also, me too, --- had one, that contradicts my deist views. share us not yours, and I will spare you mine.*** because they are not relevant in this good discussion.

    *** It was not in any way an after life connected experience.

  • Perry
    Perry

    Hey there waton,

    It is hard to imagine a scenario where one of the three could exist without the other two. Stephen Hawkin concluded this about time:

    "The conclusion of this lecture is that the universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning."

    Article

  • waton
    waton

    quoting from that article. thanks for the link:

    Since events before the Big Bang have no observational consequences, one may as well cut them out of the theory, and say that time began at the Big Bang. Events before the Big Bang, are simply not defined, because there's no way one could measure them
    "--the universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning."

    Of course, we can only see photons that come from from 13 billion years back in time, but time is not emergent, exists only because of some THING exists, but it is fundamental. For example you live in Moly time, or Perrytime, but there was time before you, and even before our universe, 'spacetime' try Penrose, Dirac.

  • waton
    waton
    I consider myself an atheist, I completely reject the idea of a totalitarian desert god/any god and the bible is a book of fairytales and folk legends moley:

    but take one statement from the scriptures: "we are made in god's image"

    time being infinite, one could argue that a possible creator is infinite, already and still exists in the future that we move into. She waiting for us there. but

    there are clearly limitations to the extend that we exist in that image, and having an after live, or everlasting life could be not one of them,

    without taking anything away from our grand experience of consciousness. No, for that you do not need both of them.

  • Perry
    Perry

    Time fundamental and not emergent?

    Well there are some physicists that are challenging the assumption that space-time is fundamental. They propose it is fluid and is not fundamental. We will see where is goes. Some say it may one day unify physics.

    All of these views, including my own, require assumptions. Just can't get much thinking done otherwise. It is just as easy to assume God as the ultimate fundamental principle as some assume time to be. Stephen Hawkin sees evidence for space, time and matter to have all come into existence at once, even though he admits he doesn't know what was "before" that. I have an answer for that... "In the beginning GOD."

    Genesis 1, you cited as proof is wrong, There was matter before the Earth, and our planet was not created at the beginning, but 10 billion years later.

    Unless of course space-time is fluid, emergent and can be manipulated. It is interesting that in the bible space is characterized as a fabric that can be stretched or manipilated:

    Isaiah 42:5 “Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out;

    Psalm 104:2 “Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain.” (or fabric)

    Isaiah 48:13 “Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens:

    Isaiah 51:13 “And forgettest the LORD thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens,

    Zechariah 12:1 “The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.”

    The heavens are still expanding, or being stretched out to this very day.


  • cofty
    cofty

    It's really funny when thesists resort to theoretical physics.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Yes we have an afterlife when we die , are molecules return to earth to help form new life

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Thank you, Perry.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow
    Hi FHN,
    Good to hear from you again. Hope you have been well

    I've been rolling with the waves. My JW sister has died. August 9th. Her husband whom I've known since I was 10 years old, has decided he wants nothing more to do with the JWs. I've been catching John Cedars on you tube to see what's up with people waking up and leaving.

    How have you been?

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