An Atheist Visits A Kingdom Hall

by Bangalore 50 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Nerd in the Brain

  Okay, it has gotten to a point where I feel like the mission here is to convince me to dislike, mistrust, and generally condemn an entire group of people (including my mother-in-law???) based on their religion. That is simply not going to happen.

  I understand that people here have had painful experiences (as have members of just about every denomination), but I will not turn my back on people in my life who have shown me time and again that I'm loved (and, no, not just because I'm a potential convert...because they know that I'm not). And I will not stick around for a conversation that's goal seems to be to convince me that people I know and care about have some sneaky mission that is their only reason for being kind, caring, loving people. (For the record, my mother-in-law is very aware that we question her beliefs and her church...just as we question every church.)

  Will I be suspicious of JW doctrine and practice? Always. Just as I am suspicious of the rather zealous anti-JW doctrine I sense here.

  As I've said before, I do truly hope that everyone here finds peace...I mean that, but I will not be converted to JW-hatred any more than I'll be converted to the JW faith.
• 

  Londo111

  I’ve seen nothing in this discussion that is about convincing anyone to dislike, mistrust, or condemn an entire group of people (Jehovah’s Witnesses). I personally love Jehovah’s Witnesses and want to see them live the best life possible. I wish them the best!

  It is the leadership of Jehovah’s Witnesses that is the problem, the source of the teachings and practices and deceit. And it has led to many serious issues that both Jehovah’s Witnesses and those on the outside need to be aware of. For instance, google Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Australian Royal Commission.

  Every group has some painful experiences, but it is a matter of proportion and degree. The Jehovah’s Witnesses organization (not the people), the Church of Scientology (not the people), the Moonies, the LDS church, and so forth have a magnitude of pain not found in mainstream religion.

  In any of these groups: where there is smoke, there is fire. Do not hate the people in these groups, but people need to be aware of the organizations themselves. There are many victims and their stories should not be invalidated.
• 

  Simon

  No, we're just trying to explain the parts you may not be aware of which causes people to respond how they do.

  Individual JWs are often unaware of the part they play and how they have been conditioned to treat people.

  No one wants anyone to hate JWs but if a warning helps someone's family avoid the harm they can cause then I'd rather they heard it than not.

  Most people who leave thought that the love and friendship they experienced from JWs was real. It turned out that it wasn't.
• 

  Finkelstein

  What can catch people off guard is the presenting smiles and concern what one receives upon going to a Kingdom Hall, everyone if dressed nicely everyone is talkative and welcoming. ..........but ?
  

  This has been instigated and purposefully designed by the WTS. so to attract attention and make a certain

  appealing public image for the prosperous support toward the WTS.

  And if people have gone to other churches they might see a difference in comparison.

  There is an element of pretentiousness that can not be missed and that JWS people have been predestined

  (programmed through mental indoctrination ) by the WTS leaders themselves.
  

  JWS are first and foremost trained and designed to be the Watchtower Publishing house's own sales representatives.
  
• 

  Chris Hannover

  An Atheist having a regular Bible study??

  ... that's when I lost interest.
• 

  steve2

  Nerd in the Brain, I acknowledge your point about feeling like "the mission here is to convince [you] to dislike, mistrust, and generally condemn an entire group of people (including my mother-in-law???) based on their religion".

  Sorry you had that feeling! As some other posters have said, JWs as a people are generally very nice, civilized people who are simply doing what they believe is the right thing to do.

  Back to the thread topic:

  I wonder if the article that sparked this thread is highlighting the difference between a invited visitor making observations and writing about the group and a group member writing about the group.

  They are bound to portray very different perspectives, each from the individual writer's points of view.

  I would only hope that both perspectives humbly acknowledge that there is "more" to the group that their particular perspectives. For example, I acknowledge there are many favourable views of the Witnesses.

  Equally, there are many unfavourable views.

  I would credit people with having the freedom and/or ability to draw their own conclusions.
• 

  Beth Sarim

  Many, many people in the public don't have a ''clue'' so to speak about the Borg's ''shunning policy'' and cover-ups of child abuse and alike.
• 

  Chris Hannover

  I'm sorry, but this thread bothers me.

  A) Nerd assumes to have wisdom only because he is ignorant & indifferent of what others have experienced.

  B) He assumes he is healthier than others because he feels nothing towards & has learned nothing from their experiences.

  C) He assumes others are unhealthy because they fight against an abuser.

  D) He assumes to know the true nature of a religion because his mom, mechanic, and a friend are nice.

  E) He assumes a nice person is the same as a good person.

  F) He assumes that an angry person must be wrong.

  G) He assumes all beliefs & expression of beliefs are good, valid, or of equal value.

  H) He assumes he is not being recruited by a group that is famous for actively recruiting. Even implying he cannot be recruited.

  This is not wisdom. This is childish thinking.
• 

  OUTLAW

  I will not stick around for a conversation that's goal seems to be to convince me that people I know and care about

  have some sneaky mission that is their only reason for being kind, caring, loving people..... Nerd in the Brain

  Try telling the same kind,caring, loving people..

  "You no longer trust,believe or will follow the WBT$."

  .
  

  ...................You`ll be invited to a..

  ..........Kind,Caring,Loving JC Meeting..
  

  ...
• 

  Nerd in the Brain

  Chris Hannover-

  Your analysis of the situation is astoundingly wrong...including your liberal use of "he." Since you've personally insulted me and my thought process, I do feel compelled to respond.

  A) I have not claimed to have any wisdom. Could you point me to a place where I claimed to have wisdom above and beyond other people? Relying on and citing my personal experience rather than immediately agreeing with people I don't actually know who are presenting unverifiable evidence isn't me "claiming wisdom."

  B) I have not claimed to be healthier than anyone. And what evidence do you have that I "feel nothing toward" and "learned nothing from" my experiences? Honestly, it seems as though, because what I feel and what I have learned are not what you wish I had learned, you're taking offense. Please do not pretend to have any insight into the feelings and growth of a person you do not know. It's presumptuous...and you're getting it quite wrong.

  C) What in the world are you talking about? "Fighting an abuser" and attacking someone on the internet for writing a blog post you don't agree with are two different things. "Fighting an abuser" and bashing a religion are two different things. "Fighting an abuser" and trying to convince me that people in my life that I care about are only nice to me because they're trying to convert me are two different things.

  D) I do not assume to know the "true nature" of any religion. Honestly, I find all religions to be sketchy and questionable. I, however, do not find all people, regardless of religion, to be sketchy and questionable. In "point A" you accuse me of not learning from my experiences, but here in "point D," citing my experiences is a problem. Curious.

  E) Again, you're making an awful lot of assumptions. Though I do believe that most people are both good and nice, I don't believe I've stated anywhere that the two words are synonymous.

  F) And again, when did I say that an angry person is wrong? I didn't. Being angry doesn't make a person wrong. Acting out of anger and lashing out at people who disagree with your opinions, though, is usually considered unfriendly and unwelcome behavior.

  G) You are making an awful lot of assumptions about my assumptions here. I don't even know how to respond to this because I have no idea where you got this idea from anything I said. I certainly do not believe that all beliefs and expressions of beliefs are good, valid, and of equal value. That would be nonsense. Terrorism is an "expression of belief." Surely you're not assuming that I think terrorism is an okey dokey thing to do?

  H) I'll admit it. I don't think I'll be "recruited." I'm very firm and open about my lack of religious beliefs. Is it impossible? No..not much is. Do I think my mother-in-law and mechanic are spending all of their waking moments scheming ways to recruit me? Nope, I don't.

  Childish? I'm not sure where you're getting that, but I'm also not sure how you drew most of your other conclusions.

  But, wait, I thought you weren't interested? ;) (Okay, I totally admit that was childish.)