You will not find this sort of support in the New System: JC Elder

by Diogenesister 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Diogenesister
    Diogenesister

    So that statement was made by an elder to a disfellowshipped brother, during a reinstatement meeting.

    This statement is made Here at around 4. 10 mins in.

    The full story of this man is incredibly sad. In fact I've rarely listened to an exjws story that has affected me quite So much. What lead the elder to make the statement, the title of this post, is this. The brother, DF for 7 years (!) & attempting to get reinstated, was basically disputing that he should have been DF in the first place. Seven years prior he had gone to the elders suffering, it subsequently turned out, from PTSD. The vietnam veteran, whose father had recently committed suicide, had told elders he was suffering and had been relying too much on evening drinks. He himself was an elder and there had been no drink driving or problems with drunken behaviour. Indeed it was only his honesty that put them on notice and with Watchtower's usual lack of love he was DF.

    So my question is, did this JC elder pull this idea out of his ass or is there literature/doctrine backing up his claim there will be no support systems for struggling sinners in the new system?

    The whole idea really threw me for a loop. Did I really miss something?

    As I say I found his story profoundly moving. You can find it Here

  • Anders Andersen
    Anders Andersen

    Afaik official stance is that in paradise (after 1000 years) any sin = instant death penalty.

    No need for a JC or trial even, as perfect people cannot hide behind imperfection and thus willingly choose to sin. They wouldn't be repentant anyway. The sinner knowingly and willingly rebelled against God and this deserves to die.

    Of course nobody ever explored the details of this idea. Nobody looked at the huge grey area.

    Assume alcoholic beverages to be still in use...would everybody have a built in breathalyzer so they know when to stop drinking?

    I know that sometimes I have 3 beers without any effects, and other times 1 and feel it.

    Would I be executed in such a situation?

    Would it really be impossible for someone to miscalculate their reaction to alcohol sometimes?

    If not, people could sin unwillingly even in Paradise.

    If so, how would that even work?

    Or similarly, how about lusting for someone you're not married to? Where is the line between seeing a person and admiring their physical and inner beauty, and lusting for them? It's easy to describe the difference between the extremes on this scale, but what about the middle?

    I'm afraid the ideas JW have about how justice would work in paradise are untenable. Of course they'll just "wait for Jehovah (tm)"...

  • days of future passed
    days of future passed

    The translation is, YOU went to outside help instead of us and instead of Jehovah. You won't be able to rely on worldly help in the new order. We are angry and self righteous since we know that any true help would have come from god and not from a person who studied and applied kindness and understanding towards you. How dare you call into question our beatings and rejection of you - because really, that's how much we love you.

    I'm sure it's the elders own ideas but probably thought out by most of those in power.

  • Anders Andersen
    Anders Andersen

    Fyi Watchtower does indeed expect execution for sinners in Paradise, but claims it's highly unlikely that people who survived the 'final test' will ever want to sin again.

    https://wol.jw.org/nl/wol/dsync/r18/lp-o/r1/lp-e/2006607#h=1

    Of course even highly unlikely events will eventually happen given enough time (eternity).

  • Diogenesister
    Diogenesister

    It's easy to describe the difference between the extremes on this scale, but what about the middle?

    Thank you Anders, yes I suppose I hadn't thought about the perfection angle. I've seen those drawings of resurrected folks in "school", I suppose I was thinking along those lines. However

    Anders It's easy to describe the difference between the extremes on this scale, but what about the middle?

    You hit the nail on the head...jws think in black and white terms and wouldn't consider between those extremes. The examples you gave were a perfect.

    Can you imagine the fear you'd live in trying to avoid that " tipping point"...you wouldn't drink nor look at the opposite sex, in case. Sharia law effectively!!

  • Diogenesister
    Diogenesister
    Days of FPThe translation is, YOU went to outside help instead of us and instead of Jehovah. You won't be able to rely on worldly help in the new order

    Oh I see! Plus I think *that* is why they didn't reinstate him for so long...he sought outside help.

    It's nuts tho'. If he had a broken leg they wouldn't hold it against him going to an orthopedic surgeon?!

    But if he's got a broken mind...oh no! Prayer, meetings, service is the answer!

  • Lost in the fog
    Lost in the fog

    Pity help Noah in the resurrection. We know from the Bible that he overdid the booze on one occasion - probably trying to self-medicate his PTSD if you ask me

    But the New World elders will have him out. And they call it paradise!!

  • asp59
    asp59

    Proverbs 31:6 Give strong drink to him who is perishing, And wine to him whose life is bitter

  • Diogenesister
    Diogenesister
    TProverbs 31:6 Give strong drink to him who is perishing, And wine to him whose life is bitter
    LinkYup. Worked a treat according to him.


  • steve2
    steve2

    I appreciated the subtitles because the sound wasn’t the best - but unfortunately the subtitles stop after the first 6 or so minutes. I tried but could not decipher who was talking or what was being said after that and could not listen to the recording.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit