by jdash 50 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I’m sorry, I see you’re young and new.... asking questions is good, you’ve got plenty of time to ponder.
Some good ones I’ve had....
As an atheist, what is the point in living?
Shouldn’t the atheist just lie and steal, even kill other people to his advantage?
If there is no God, why not just kill ourselves?
Interesting.
That would make deists into atheists would'n't it?
Yes. I don't believe in agnostics.
Why not be a good person and do well for others while we have life of our own accord instead of for some reward from a sky daddy or out of fear of being destroyed by a sky daddy?
A billion sperm and each of us won the lottery by reaching the egg. Can’t that be your heaven and reward?
Why so narcissistic to believe we deserve more like “everlasting life” or “heaven”?
Why can’t death be a natural progression after a life well lived?
For me, being a lover of science, the evidence kept building that made beliefe in god and of course the bible harder and harder to swallow. I don't even know where to begin.
I NEVER write really long opinions - so please read this:)
I was always a LOVER of science (even as a kid) but twisted myself into a pretzel with logic to overlook the complete idiocies in the bible and religion when it came to science.
As an elder, I took all the science & history talks so I could "do them right" and put a spin on them closer to reality but keeping that shell in place protecting my live long religious beliefs.
Things just got worse, especially with modern science breakthroughs.
First thing to fall for me was The Flood. I spent years figuring ways and listening to theories on how it was possible. But I concluded that the Flood was as possible as me being the Center for the Bulls, and the QB of the Cowboys at the same time at the age of 48.
Then all the science that was coming out in the study of the brain. One NPR show talked about a study that was going on that showed that anyone could have their morality totally shut off with a chemical cocktail that just stops the brain from creating some of its hormones. That and other brain stuff (and there was lots of it) showed me that we are just a chemical machine, with NO internet way of changing our behaviour past the specific boundaries each unique person has. So no matter how much you prayed or studied, some people can NOT as the WT states, change their way of life past what their dna will allow. So thats not fair in a GOD world, so there is no god.
Then Evolution. My trips to the great Museums of Natural History in places like DC and NYC have so much evidence that I could not keep ignoring it. Not lots of evidence, but 10s of millions in each museum. All the stuff I was taught in the "Creation" books was all BS. There are MANY intermediate species fossils found, many many. The BS I would teach from the platform about them, or about the EYE was all misinformation and cherry picking OLD data.
My god the Big Bang. Now I believed it was true for many decades, and just used the excuse that the old farts in Brooklyn just don't understand it. But the constant drumbeat that it was not real, and all the 1/2 truths about why were so blatantly wrong, it made me to start doubting the source and its honesty about the way it presented information.
6000 years really? The idea that humans have only been around for 6k years, and that all things were wiped out 4k years ago can only be believed if you live in a cave. I can't believe the stupidity I let slide about the age of the earth, (it could be many thousands of years old) Oh Brother... This could be a book on itself.
Segue here. As an elder who was used lots on district assembly parts (big ones) had access to all the outlines, and taught at Elder Schools (what a misnomer that is), I got to see SO much of the 1/2 truths, lies, and use of OLD OLD ideas and info and data here. I saw the deliberate misdirection and fancy questioning used to make people doubt what was fact. The false questioning was also horrible. I could not ignore the fact that they were WILLINGLY leading people down a path they must have know was false.
Also sex. It became so apparent that the way the WT treated sex was just wrong in so many ways. The idea that masterbation, oral, and anal sex was bad just became idiotic. Not only are they not bad, they are 100% normal. Homosexuality also was a turning point. I have a family member who I knew was gay as a little kid. It was no shock what he chose when he grew up. IT WAS NOT A CHOICE, it is who he is. Then the constant harping on Porn, and all of that just became silly and just a means of controlling people. Imagine my shock when I found out that about 10% of the animal kingdom display bi or homosexual activity. And by the way what do you think dogs are doign when they hump your pillow or leg. DoggyMasterbation, like all animals with a penis.
Then there was always a WAR on something. Smurfs, Disney, Star Trek, Vampires, Zombies. Seems like god was really threatened by Fake things. It was maddening that as an elder who wanted to really help people, all we were talking about was what someone watched on TV or saw on their computer.
And just like in your congregation, people were dealing with REAL problems they could use help with. I knew of very few GOOD marriages in our hall. Most were all fake held by the glue of being busy in the "truth" or fear of the big DF. I wanted to and tried to help people in what they really were looking for, but it was like punching the ocean.
I could go on and on like many of you, but this sums it up.
Thanks for reading it. It feels good to get it out sometimes.
If you press the issue with an intellectually honest agnostic, they’re an atheist.
From my favorite
Bart Ehrman:
QUESTION:
If you don’t think God exists, why do you refer to yourself as an agnostic? If this is your perspective, why not refer to yourself as an atheist? Could it be that you don’t believe the Christian God exists, but are open to the possibility that some kind of higher power exists (this is my perspective) and this is why you call yourself agnostic?
ANSWER:
The first thing to say is that I had no idea how militant both atheists and agnostics could be about their labels, until I became an agnostic myself!
Before that, when I was a believer, I pretty much thought atheism and agnosticism were two amicably related positions, one saying that there is no God and the other saying that s/he doesn’t know if there is a God. But when I became an agnostic, I started getting some very spirited emails from atheists who were incensed that I called myself an agnostic, as if I were being intellectually dishonest (that’s not the case with the person who asks the question above – he is good spirited about it and just curious).
What I came to see is that many agnostics and many atheists think they have a corner on the truth. And they think the other side just won’t come clean. In short, many atheists seem to think that agnostics are just wimpy atheists; and many agnostics seem to think that atheists are just arrogant agnostics. That is to say: atheists think that agnostics are afraid to follow the truth of their convictions; and agnostics think that atheists claim to know far more than they could possibly know.
I’m not sure that’s the best way to think about the terms. For years I thought that an atheist was someone who said there was no God, and an agnostic was someone who said they didn’t know. I’ve changed my mind about that in the past year or two. Now I think that “atheism” is a statement about faith and “agnosticism” is a statement about epistemology (the “science of knowledge”).
If someone has a better way of explaining the terms, I’m open to it. But for now, for me, the way it works like this. An “atheist” is literally one who does not believe in a divine being. That is, s/he does not believe in God and so is “without God” (the literal meaning of the term).. An “agnostic” is one who says s/he does “not know” if there is a God (the literal meaning of that term; it’s about knowledge, not faith). And so they are dealing with two incommensurate entities: faith (atheism) and knowledge (agnosticism).
When it comes to faith, I am an atheist. I don’t believe in the traditional Judeo-Christian God (or in Zeus, Aphrodite, Hermes, Apollo, etc) (I sometimes believe in Dionysus/Bacchus, but that’s another story…). But as to whether there is some greater spiritual power/intelligence in the universe, I’m agnostic. I don’t know if any such being exists. And in my opinion, either does anyone else!
That means that I’m not sure what to call myself. I suppose I lean toward “agnostic” rather than “atheist” simply because as a scholar and professional thinker I am, at the end of the day, more interested in “knowledge” than “faith.” Moreover, the term does seem to me to convey a greater sense of humility in the face of an incredibly awesome universe, about which I know so little. I happen to think that humility is a good thing in these circumstances. At the same time, I can understand why others may want to emphasize what they do not believe rather than what they do not know, and so call themselves atheist. (Why they are so incensed that I don’t follow suit, however, continues to be a mystery to me.)
Reading the bible without apologetics built into our brains by religion and just reading the words it says is a great way to start to question. The god of the bible is awful.
It seems as there is an argument, if so, my fault for causing it. I just wanted to see what caused other people to question their belief in a God.
Anyways, thanks for the answers. Even though some of the few are kinda confusing.
Arguments are welcome and a key function on this forum. There is no fault by you whatsoever. In fact, it was a great OP. Never be afraid to say what is on your mind and keep asking questions. :)
