"How Long Would Jesus' Reign Be?"

by BoogerMan 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • BelisemDeBelimakom

    In order to understand this issue and others, I believe one must also include [so called Apocryphal] books removed from the scriptures, historic books that might be related and the opinions of Bible scholars in his/her examination that is free of any bias. Then I believe it will be possible to find the answers. The overall picture will look clearer when these little bits and pieces of information coming together like puzzle pieces. If we are seeking the truth, the information we find will make sense and we will be convinced.

    Because our current (and maybe the only) understanding is relying completely on the "Organization" and its distorted interpretations, thinking outside the box can feel impossible (maybe we'll still be trying to rationalize the Organization's interpretation) and then at the end the simplicity of the answer we get can make us even doubt causing an unfillable void.

  • TonusOH

    Lacking any sort of scale for comparison, we would need to view it from the point of the person making the claims or predictions. For god, the word 'soon' is meaningless. He experiences time very differently than people do- for god, a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day. If you're eternal, time has no bearing.

    If you are an organization that uses anticipation as a tool for getting and keeping people interested and involved, then "shortly" or "soon" refer to a very brief timescale. How many people would have stayed JWs if the GB's spirit guide revealed that the current system of things -destined to be destroyed "shortly" or "soon"- would still be here in 50, 75, or 100+ years?

  • BoogerMan

    @ Vienne & Slim - I know the cult doesn't teach that the 1000 year reign began in 1914 - my point.

    They can't have it it both ways: "Christ began ruling in 1914, but he didn't start reigning then." 😂😂😂

    The org always wants to speak out of both sides of its mouth.

    Spoiler alert for JW's: Christ's reign began in 33 C.E. when he became priest/king at his ascension. (Hebrews 6:20 - "Jesus, who has become a high priest according to the manner of Melchizedek forever.")

    The "1000 years" referred to at Revelation 20:4,6 are the final years of Christ's reign when believers/Christians will eventually "reign" - upon the earth, - βασιλεύω - to reign, of the governor of a province, of the reign of Christians in the millennium. (see Psalm 45:16 & Rev. 5:10 K.I.T.)

    After the 1000 years unbelievers will be resurrected - as stated at Revelation 20:5 - and not as the org perversely claims, during the 1,000-year reign.

    These are the ones who will be tested, not the believers who "reigned" for 1000 years in peace.

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim

    The Borg always speaks from both sides of its mouth.

    In order to make gullible/naieve people believe anything. So people have a hard time defending inherited doctrines.

    That's how a cult built on sand survives.

  • Rattigan350

    Blondie, I'm surprised that the Society hasn't figured out the creative days. The creative days in Gen 1 are 24 hours long. However the time covered in creation within those creative days was millions of years. Like a TV episode is an hour long, but the time covered within that episode can be years. (Unless it is the show 24)

  • Fisherman

    He experiences time very differently than people do

    So when the Bible uses the term tomorrow, God means a thousand years from today or even longer. That’s funny. Obviously, God understands how humans measure time inside the universe and the terms people use to describe lengths of time so if God wanted people to know “when”, the Bible would speak in those terms but in Genesis a day doesn’t mean 24 hours and “short” and “quickly” actually mean a very long time in Revelation as human experience time. So,Bible terms about experiencing time are totally meaningless to people since thousands of years is not actually quick and a century is not actually short. The words are used to keep people in constant expectation and on their guard. They also appease and assure and limit and warn. For example,100 years and going = “And just a little while longer and then wicked one will be no more..”

  • ExBethelitenowPIMA

    The big problem is that very old doctrine was never meant to last this long.

    here we are 2023 and the next generation has grown up propagating old ideas from men who have all died already

    We are too far away from 1914 by now, but this new generation can’t think of a way to get away from it.

    how can they now? The overlapping nonsense was designed to buy some time, perhaps enough time for the current crop to be looked after in luxury but the next generation of top dogs will have to think of a way to get away from 1914 and 607bce. 77 week prophecy that we all know is wrong.

    Many times it is said in prayers at the KH about our reigning king Jesus. They believe he has been reigning king since 1914. But the further we get away from 1914 the more people will doubt this.

    my guess is at some point over the next few decades they will announce new light. They will probably do it gradually and the organisation will be unrecognisable compared to what it was a few decades ago.

    it’s constantly changing. There will be hardly anyone disfellowshipped from now on with the change that if someone says going to the JD will make them suicidal then nothing will happen. It’s a get out of jail free card.

    the reduction in ministry these days we only do ten mins then have coffee break

    elders have a much easier job, there is no preparation needed to take any items these days.

  • Vidqun

    Yes, God's time scale is different from ours. "Shortly" in Gr. τάχος, pert. to a relatively brief time subsequent to another point of time, ἐν τάχει as adverbial unit soon, in a short time Lk 18:8; Ro 16:20; 1 Ti 3:14; Rv 1:1; 22:6; shortly Ac 25:4 (BDAG).

    After Jesus' advice to the seven congregations, a voice would invite John: "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this." (Rev. 4:1 ESV)

    Accordig to Peter: "But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." (2 Pet. 3:8 ESV)

  • Fisherman

    Yes, God's time scale is different from ours.

    That is totally irrelevant because God would need to communicate with people in a language that people can understand and relate to. So when the Bible says shortly, it should mean shortly as humans experience time and not as God experiences time. Like telling someone, I’ll see you soon and they die of old age and you never show up and the person dies waiting because to you the word soon means a couple thousand years.

  • Vidqun

    Fisherman, you missed this one. Peter did say it under inspiration. Don't overlook it. It's a fact: "But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." (2 Pet. 3:8 ESV)

    Then there's these: "These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens." (Gen. 2:4 ESV)

    "He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time." (Dan. 7:25; cf. 12:7 ESV) The learned tells us it means 3 1/2 years. No. He's definitely using a different time scale from what He gave us. But He doesn't leave us in the dark. He explains it quite nicely, so we can work it out.

    Ex. "shortly:" Lot of scholars take it literally and apply Revelation exclusively to the first century. These view it as written ca. 70 CE. But for various reasons I believe in a late date for Revelation and view from Chapter 4 as future. A little of it can be applied to our immediate past. The rest must be future.

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