"How Long Would Jesus' Reign Be?"

by BoogerMan 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • BoogerMan
    BoogerMan

    Simple enough question for a JW to answer, because the org has told them for over 100 years that,

    a) Jesus would reign for 1000 years, and

    b) that his reign began in 1914 when he became King.

    Therefore, we are now 109 years into the millennium, with only another 891 years left to go.

    Why didn't anyone tell me that I'd missed these two major events? -

    (Revelation 20:2) He seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years.

    (Revelation 20:4) And they came to life (resurrected) and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.

    Spoiler: w82 4/1 p. 24 par. 14 - "Since all “the rest of the dead” that are resurrected during* Christ’s 1,000-year reign...."

    * Revelation 20:5 - "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended."



  • vienne
    vienne

    not what the Watchtower actually teaches.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Yes I used to wonder this too, but as vienne says it’s not actually Watchtower teaching that the 1000 years began in 1914. The millennium is said to begin whenever Armageddon takes place and we enter the new system. This is a bit confusing because they say God’s kingdom began to rule in 1914. At the same time, remember that 1975 was anticipated to be the end of 6000 years since man’s creation, and the beginning of the millennium. When it didn’t happen in 1975 then it was pushed further into the future.

    The bottom line is that no matter how much time passes since 1914 it is still not eating into the 1000 reign, according to Watchtower teaching. So that’s one time related problem they don’t have to worry about.

    It does however become increasingly incredible to view 1914 - present as a “generation”, plus the devil was cast down following 1914 “knowing that he has a short period of time”. That “short period” is now well over 100 years and counting,

  • blondie
    blondie

    slimboyfat, I agree with you. The time from 1914 to now is not part of the 1,000 year reign. The WTS has discarded the teaching that a creative day is 7,000 years, but instead says thousands of years, and has not used that concept since 1987 (except a quote from a pre-1987 WT publication) but without any comment in the publications on the change (or in talks). I remember that was changed in a Tuesday night study book, and older witnesses missed the change, and were surprised when it had been edited in the new edition. Disobedient older jws had not discarded the old copy and gotten a new one. Newer jws adults/or in after 1987 had no clue. 2021 comment "So each of the six creative “days” during which God prepared the earth for life and created life on it could represent extremely long periods of time." 2006 "The fact is, the Bible reveals that the creative “days,” or ages, encompass thousands of years." 1988 "Hence, the evidence shows that the entire period of six days should be viewed as tens of thousands of years long."

  • Earnest
    Earnest

    slimboyfat : That “short period” [between the Devil being cast down and Harmageddon] is now well over 100 years and counting,

    Now that we know it is not limited to a generation in the normal sense of the term, it can effectively be any length of time. In Revelation 1:1 it refers to a revelation given to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. Quite possibly some parts of Revelation were fulfilled in the first century (if, indeed, Revelation was written that early), but shortly can obviously be stretched for as long as you need to.

  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345

    The interpretation of the Book of Revelation by the Watchtower Society is typically millenarian heresy. The subject of Chapter 20 is the "millennial" reign of the saints with Christ, and the final assault of Satan and his allies against God. But how should this be interpreted? Let's see the Catholic interpretation.

    Revelation 20:1-6 is its most difficult part of this book. The single correct and now almost universally accepted interpretation among Catholic exegetes sees the millennial reign of Christ and His saints as the entire earthly life of the Church, which essentially means the same as the "forty-two months", "one thousand two hundred and sixty days", and "three and a half years" mentioned in other visions (11:2; 12:6.14). The power of Satan suffered a mortal wound when he was cast down from heaven and even more so by the redeeming death of Jesus Christ, which "bound" the devil in a certain sense, although his power was not completely annihilated on earth. At the end of the world, Satan will regain his power for a short time (11:9. 11: "three and a half days") and will launch a final attack on the Church of Christ with all his strength. This struggle will end with the definitive fall of the devil.

    Thus the Millenarianism is an eschatological heresy about Christ's thousand-year reign, which he will establish on Earth before the end of the world with those whom he has already resurrected to eternal life. The belief harks back to a scene from Revelation (20:1-6). After Jesus has defeated the two beasts symbolizing the power of evil and their followers, an angel chains up the devil and throws him into the abyss for a thousand years, so that he cannot harm the righteous. The souls of the martyrs emerge and rule with Christ as priests of God and Christ. This is the "first resurrection", and he who partakes in it, the "second death" does not harm. The rest of the dead do not rise yet. After a "thousand years", Satan is set free, and he provokes nations to wage war against Christ again, but God permanently deprives him of his power (20:7-10). This is followed by the so-called resurrection and the judgment of the world (20:11-15). Interpreting the referenced scripture is not easy, but interpreters agree that the numbers have symbolic meanings. The relatively short persecution ("three and a half years") is followed by the Church's long period of peace ("thousand years").

    We should rather think of an eschatological interpretation, that is, a heavenly event that impacts the earthly life of the Church. The scripture's teachings on the afterlife salvation must be the basis for our interpretation. The text does not intend to symbolize events happening in temporal succession, but a symbolic logical order, that is, that persecution and suffering on Earth are followed by salvation, and that within the Church, the hope and grace of final salvation coincide with earthly trials.

    In the first centuries of the Church, especially some heretics, but also some Christians believed that Chapter 20, verses 1-6 should be taken literally, meaning a thousand-year earthly reign of Christ and His saints (chiliasm, "chilios" = a thousand in Greek). The first determined representatives of millenarianism were Cerinthus and Papias. According to Eusebius, Cerinthus professed that after the resurrection, the righteous will live on earth in the "New Jerusalem", and their bodies will serve desires and pleasures. Papias referred to an alleged revelation of Jesus, according to which the paradise abundance will be realized in the thousand-year earthly kingdom, including physical activity, which he adopted from the rabbis' view. Justin Martyr and Irenaeus only affirm its spiritual bliss. Early Creeds do not mention millenarianism, and the Gnostics did not accept it either. In the early 3rd century, Origen declared millenarianism an infiltration of Jewish tradition. He interpreted the referred part of the Book of Revelation allegorically. There were some who engaged in temporal speculation even regarding its beginning. In Africa, Tertullian deemed it worthy of God's justice that after the resurrection, the righteous first receive their reward here on earth, where they suffered. Millenarian writings are still known from the 4th century (Apollinarius of Laodicea), but they mainly understood the "thousand-year" kingdom in a spiritual sense. Eusebius, Gregory of Nazianzus, Epiphanius, and Theodoret outright rejected it. In the early 7th century, Andreas of Caesarea counted the thousand years from the Incarnation to the appearance of the Antichrist, thus for the first time, he interpreted millenarianism historically within the Church. Augustine understood the first resurrection as a spiritual effect of faith and baptism, the thousand years as the remaining part of the 6th world day or era, or as the remaining entire time.

    In the Middle Ages, and even in our times, some interpreters have revived this interpretation, or have attributed this interpretation to the author of the Book of Revelation. However, this explanation fails to notice that John is speaking of a purely spiritual kingdom; it completely misinterprets the basic ideas of the Book of Revelation and leads to impossibilities. The idea of moderate millenarianism also reappears in some medieval theologians. Thomas Aquinas rejected the historical interpretation. Joachim da Fiore interpreted the thousand-year kingdom as the reign of the Holy Spirit, and accordingly, he interpreted the gospel in a prophetic-pneumatological sense. He felt that the true realization of the gospel is still to come. Some writer communities adopted his teachings. In modern times, only certain sects revived the expectation (Anabaptists, Moravian Brethren, Adventists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses), but Lessing, Hegel, Kant, and the Romantics also dealt with it. Post-Trent theologians unanimously rejected the dual resurrection, and the official Church position also became that even moderate millenarianism cannot be taught without endangering faith (Denzinger 2296).

    When Roman paganism is destroyed, Satan's power is taken away for an indefinite period of time so that he can no longer deceive the nations as he did in the time of Roman paganism. But as soon as this long period of time passes, he regains his former power, but only for a short time. "When Roman paganism is destroyed;" because this current vision directly connects to the previous one, which is about the destruction of Roman paganism. However, opinions vary as to the time of the destruction. Some theologians understand AD 313, in which the rule of idolatry was broken as a result of the conversion of Constantine; others place the fall of paganism even earlier. Since paganism did not end suddenly, this point in time cannot be strictly defined. After this point in time, "the power is taken from Satan, so that he may no longer deceive the nations as before;" for "binding, locking up, sealing" in no way implies a complete limitation of Satan's seductive power, just as "release" does not mean its unlimited power. These expressions therefore refer only to the power that Satan exercised over paganism, and metaphorically mean that his power was only taken away to the extent that he exercised it with regard to Roman paganism. This interpretation is also confirmed by history. After paganism fell, Christianity as a whole was not persecuted at any time, no ruler ever sought to exterminate it anymore, where it took strong root, idolatry was not brought back anymore, and the abominations that came with it did not return anymore. However, Satan was not entirely powerless. Here and there Christianity and Christians themselves suffered maltreatment and persecution, were distorted by heresies, their peace was disturbed by wars, and a more subtle form of idolatry replaced the worship of images.

    The restriction of Satan's power lasts for an indefinite period of time. The text indeed says a thousand years; but that this is just a round number is already clear from the fact that the last time, which follows the thousand years, is known to no one (Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32, Acts 1:7). According to Augustine and the best interpreters, under that time is meant the time that flows from the fall of paganism to the final period. In the last era, Satan's former power will be restored for a short time. This will be the subject of verse 7.

    This thousand-year co-reign has been the source of much controversy. Those who took it literally fell into heresy. The thousand years may originate from a Jewish idea: according to the seven-day creation, the world would last 7000 years, of which the last thousand years would apply to Christ's thousand-year rule, while the following eighth thousand years would mean eternity. Augustine and Jerome count the thousand years from the incarnation of Jesus. In the writings of the rabbis, one can find the concept of the world's 7000-year future. The first 6000 years are the unfolding of history, the last thousand correspond to a peaceful rule with the Messiah like the Sabbath. But this schema does not appear in Revelation. Especially because the ancient Creeds only speak of the general resurrection, and it is clear that the fate of the disciple on earth is similar to that of the Master, and the reward awaits us only in the afterlife (Lk 9:23; Mt 10:24; Rom 8:17). We can understand the allusion of Revelation to mean that the thousand-year kingdom represents the full kingdom of Christ, which began on earth and reaches its fullness in the afterlife (1 Cor 15:24-28).

    v2-3. The abyss (bottomless pit) is the hell (3. verse; see also 9:1; the "key" represents the angel's power over hell, and the great chain (symbol) serves to bind Satan, or to unlock the power to open hell. The prophet refers to Satan as the ancient serpent, based on Genesis 3:1. The "binding" symbolizes the limitation of Satan's power; the thousand years represent the entire earthly life of the Church. An angel descended from heaven to bind Satan. Many interpreters recognize Michael the Archangel in this angel. The binding is for a "thousand years", and during this time, the faithful of Christ reign with Him.

    v4. The sealing serves to confirm the (relative) binding of the evil spirit. After the Savior's crucifixion, the evil spirit - in the words of Augustine - is like a chained rabid dog, which can only bite those who recklessly or carelessly approach it. Throughout the earthly life of the Church, Satan can tempt people, but he can force no one into sin. "For a little while", in proportion to the long earthly life of the Church. After Satan was "chained", paganism fell, and the rule of Christianity began. The glorified saints, especially the holy martyrs, ruled and judged with Christ during those thousand years. Those seated on thrones generally represent the blessed Christians; for every true Christian was promised to rule with Christ (1 Thessalonians 2:12). The holy martyrs are particularly mentioned, for they sacrificed their lives for Christ. The rule and judgement take place in heaven; as it is exercised by spirits, not by the resurrected bodies of the righteous. Sharing in Christ's rule signifies participation in His reign. As Christ governs, guides and protects His Church, so the saints partake in this governance, and if we seek their advocacy for our salvation, their intercession for us can be powerful, since they rule with Christ. The rule of the spirits lasts until the final era, when after the victory over the last struggles of paganism, the resurrection of the body and communal life occur, the judgement will then be held not just by spirits, but by those spirits who are endowed with a glorified body. (See Matthew 19:28; Luke 22:30, 1 Corinthians 6:3.) Those seated on the judgement seats are the followers of the Lord Jesus, the already glorified martyrs (whose spirits the prophet sees) and other righteous people (who did not worship the beast, etc.), whether still living on earth or already enjoying the bliss of heaven. The sanctifying grace makes the righteous people on earth God's adopted children, heirs of heaven, and thus in a certain sense co-regents with Jesus Christ.

    v5. The "first resurrection" symbolizes the spiritual resurrection through baptism (or repentance) into the life of sanctifying grace; the other dead are those who died without the sanctifying grace. The other dead, the deceased godless, who sided with the beast, do not live during those thousand years, they do not live and do not rule with Christ in heaven spiritually, but as their bodies, so their spirits too have died, they were taken from Jesus's face, excluded from heaven, condemned to damnation. These words "they do not live, they do not resurrect" are opposed to the previous verse's word "they live". As this signifies the blessed spiritual life of the righteous, so that they do not live proves the miserable spiritual death of the wicked. It should be noted: this expression "they do not resurrect, until etc." does not mean that these dead begin to live spiritually after the expiration of these thousand years, but as the phrase "until" in scripture does not continue the action beyond the specified point but expresses denial (see Matthew 1:25), here too the blessed spiritual life is denied from these dead.

    v6. The prophet's inspired exclamation. The "second death" is the eternal damnation (14. verse). All true Christians, in a broader sense, are priests of God and Christ, because their life is a constant fragrant sacrifice before God. (See also 1,6; 5,10; 7,13; 1 Peter 2:9.) Blessed and holy can be said of one whose spirit, after the death of the body, reaches Christ in heaven, to live there, rule and judge with Him. Those spirits get there who truly live in God's grace in this life and die in this grace; that is why the Lord calls this life of grace on earth a resurrection (John 5:25), just as Paul the Apostle does (Ephesians 5:14). The "first death" is the death of the body, the "second death" is the spiritual death, the eternal damnation (21:8). Whoever lives with Christ, has begun to live in Him here, and ends this life lived in Him in this world, such a person may die bodily with the "first death", but does not die the spiritual death, the death of eternal damnation, but etc. in heaven, as if they were priests, serving God, they share in Christ's rule spiritually until the very end, when they will then resurrect bodily, and will continue to live and rule in perfect glory forever.

    Satan lost his power with Jesus' redemption, and through grace Christians truly became "kings and priests". John also talks about the "first" and the "second death", as well as the "first" and "second resurrection". John understood the other death as eternal damnation, so the "first resurrection" should be understood as a spiritual resurrection, when someone leaves their sins and lives a life of grace. Thus, the members of Christ's thousand-year kingdom are Christians who live in a state of grace, that is, they have risen from sin through baptism. The thousand years therefore lasts from the birth of Christ until His second coming.

    v7-9. The final attack of the devil and his allies against the Church, and their ultimate downfall. At the end of the world, Satan will attack the Church with full power, but only for a short time, "three and a half days" (cf.: Rev 11:9). The brevity of the description of the great battle is shockingly powerful. The battle of the devil and his allies essentially coincides with the continuous attacks of the Antichrist (the two beasts) against the Kingdom of God (19:11-21); but the prophet separately describes the downfall and punishment of the main enemies of the Kingdom of God (in the sense of the pagan Roman Empire, - the Antichrist struggling in the two beasts - the evil spirit).

    When the thousand years are over: in the last period of the earthly life of the Church. The release of Satan means that the evil spirit (with God's permission) will embark on an even more intense final attack against the Church. The four corners of the earth represent all directions of the world. Gog and Magog are the final great enemies of God's kingdom in Ezekiel 38 and 39. According to Genesis 10:2, Magog was a people descended from Japheth, who lived in the vicinity of the Caspian Sea; Gog was also a people, or the king of Magog. Gog was otherwise the king of Lydia. Here, Gog and Magog represent all enemies of the Church, symbolize all anti-Church powers and cruelties.

    When the last age comes according to God's decree, God will allow Satan to gain a vast multitude among the nations, in order to overcome Christianity and gain victory for himself. For the thousand years and the release, see verse 3. The peoples at the four corners of the earth, not just those living at the extreme limits of the earth, but all peoples under the sky, as indicated by the four corners. Among all peoples, even among Christians, Satan will find a vast number of followers; because Christ himself says that at that time, when he comes again, moral decay will be almost universal (Luke 17:26-28), and he will hardly find faith (Luke 18:8). Gog and Magog were northern peoples, where the Greeks' Scythia was, the wildest barbarians (Ezekiel 38). They are not so called here as if they would be those who will oppress the Church in the last times, but only serve as symbolic names for groups persecuting Christianity. They gather for battle against the Church, cooperate to exterminate Christianity from the earth. According to apostolic teaching, the Antichrist will appear in the last times (2 Thessalonians 2), this will be their leader, or he will cooperate with them.

    The beloved city is Jerusalem, as a prefiguration of the Church. The prophet describes God's punitive judgment, along with several Old Testament prophets, as a great battle.

    v10. This vers again teaches the eternity of the punishments of hell. The outcome of the great battle: Satan is finally cast into hell with his followers. This battle coincides with the struggle described in 19:17-21, but while there the prophet mainly focused on the punishment of the two beasts, here he mainly outlines the final fate of Satan. The "lake of fire and sulfur" is the hell. The "camp of the saints", which is besieged by enemies of Christianity, is the Church on earth. What this battle will be like, whether it's purely spiritual or an actual battle; whether the beloved city is a real city, where the small army of believers will be gathered, or whether it only refers to the Church; what the fire signifies, whether it will be actual fire or just a metaphor... we must leave the interpretation of all these to the future; because the prophecy will only be fully understandable when the future event it discusses has occurred. The duty of a Christian is to be vigilant, to pay close attention to the signs of the times, and to always be ready for the coming of the Lord (see Matthew 24). However, it is certain with regard to this last age that before the Last Judgement, the Jewish people will enter the Church (Romans 11). Here follows the concluding scene that completes the book and the vision, i.e., the transition of the Church, its dissolution into heaven.

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman

    It does however become increasingly incredible to view 1914 - present as a “generation”, plus the devil was cast down following 1914 “knowing that he has a short period of time”. That “short period” is now well over 100 years and counting,

    100 years is obviously not a short period of time —literally. “Short , soon, a little while” can be spiritualized or poetized to mean just about any guess. When you tell someone I’ll be there shortly, you are implying that they are going to have to wait. A century later is not shortly though. But Jesus also told the congs in Revelation that he was coming quickly 2 thousand years ago. Time did pass quickly for us alive today but actually 2 thousand years later is a very long time. Time passed quickly from billions of years ago too but that is not saying much. The words are literary device describing certainty bur not length of time. 2000 years is quick and 100 years is short.

    No doubt God will make his word come true but obviously you cant interpret words like short period or quickly on their face.

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    @Fisherman: you cant interpret words like short period or quickly on their face.

    Then you can’t interpret the rest of the words on their face either. If one portion of the prophecy isn’t literal, none of it should be interpreted as literal unless there is a clear modifier somewhere along the way. You can’t speak of the end of the world as literal, you can’t speak of Christ coming or going or caring about his flock, or hell, binding Satan as literal. Maybe it was all figurative and he is going to come and with some effort you can bind satan in your heart but death and evil is going to continue to exist, because hey, it wasn’t literal.

    So anything he does or doesn’t do isn’t going to happen literally, ever.

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman

    In Revelation the Bible describes the Millennium occurring after Armageddon.

    Before Armageddon, Revelation describes Jesus as “now have come to pass…the kingdom..” so Jesus rulership begins before Armageddon. How long Jesus rules before Armageddon is a good guess.

    After Armageddon, Revelation describes the Millennium as 1000 years in length assuming it means a solar year times a thousand and a thousand literarily means the quantity 1000. Can we be sure that the “Millennium” is literally 1000 solar years long with the book of Revelation describing itself as being symbolic? Let me know. Also don’t confuse believing with knowing.

  • Vidqun
    Vidqun
    Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever." (Rev. 11:15 ESV)

    If the trumpet blasts and plagues make up the great tribulation, then he would become king in the middle of it. If the tribulation is seven years, each trumpet/plague would be 180 days, depending whether these are of equal length. His kingship of the earth would only be established after he subdues the earth, 'God making his enemies a stool for his feet,' thus after Armageddon.

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