by azaria 31 Replies latest jw friends
well first things first...
don't watch that crappy Hitler miniseries! It is a joke! It has the times wrong the names wrong. The actors are the worst I have seen in a long time. I sat thru one episode with my history books and ripped it to shreds. I am offended that this stupid country thinks it has to lie and misrepresent even the reality of how horrible it was just to make ratings. Talk about propoganda! and the American public lap it up like kittens!
arggggggggggggg
Ravyn
azaria-
My heart sincerely goes out to you. I too know what it is like to experience unimaginable pain when dealing with immediate family members who remain Jehovah's Witnesses. I know we did not exactly get off on the right foot, so perhaps a little background would better explain my circumstance and how we are very similar.
My mother remains a Jehovah's Witness. She was BORN into it over 55 years ago. You see, I am a 3rd generation JW, and am the ONLY member of my family to exit. Because of love of my mother, I once tried to show her a plethora of documents (even taking direct quotation from Watchtower bound volumes, which I have a library from 1945-present) to expose her to the reality that the Jehovah's Witness religion is a lie. I love my mother, and was doing this out of concern and desire to not see her live the rest of her life dedicated to a lie. I was told to my face that I was a disappointment as a son, that she had failed as a mother, and that she could not love someone who turned their back on Jehovah God in any such fashion. I have a brother with two children of his own, and I do not see them because they remain loyal Witnesses, and pretty much want absolutely nothing to do with me.
My advice to you is to be prepared for heartache and frustration. No matter how hard you try, you cannot make an individual change their beliefs. In fact, the harder you attempt to show them facts, the more they will reject you (it reinforces the indoctrinated notion that you are an Apostate) A person has to be capable of thinking for themselves (not insinuating that your mother is not able to, but that she prefers to cling to Watchtower sanctioned literature and organization-provided thought) and realizing that blatant and glaring issues are completely wrong within the WT organization. Until they are willing to discuss things rationally, you are just slamming your head uselessly against a brick wall.
My sincerest thoughts go out to you, and I hope things get better. Believe me, I DO know your pain.
((((azaria))))
(((((((((((((Azaria))))))))))))
It sounds like you had a day similar to my life! I am always the one who calls my mom too. I could probably fall off of the face of the earth with my kids and she'd never notice until she read it in the paper. The jw's are very self righteous and need to always be right. I always subtly try to get through to my mom about the wt but she is so blind and defensive that it just never works. I've had my share of arguments and I am always the one who calls to apologize for getting angry. I do not apologize for the truth that I spoke and I make it clear but I tell her that I'm sorry that I lost my cool. She accepts the apology smugly and never apologizes herself. Whatever. I have had all that I can take of our relationship. I want to honor my parents but I don't have much respect left for them. My mom uses me when she needs something and relies on me heavily for help in all ways. My siblings are jw's and are busy....but they are so wonderful to her because they are jw's...again whatever. It hurts and I ask myself why I keep going back for more. I am convinced that if I brought my mom an apple and the jw's told her that it was an orange she would defend them! When I call my mom she always needs something and I always help her but I just found out that she is having a garage sale with my two sisters and I asked her why she didn't ask me to join it...she said that i live too far. I live 25 minutes away which isn't too far when she needs groceries or a prescription. I could go on and on but I'll spare you...I need to limit my phone contact to about once a month for my own sanity. My mom manipulates me and I need to be done now. I get so upset at times that it prevents me from being a good mother to my own kids. The jw mindset is not only twisted in scripture but also in everyday dealings. I have seen too much and need to keep my concsience clear by atleast calling her on occasion and helping her if I can but once a week phone calls are just too detrimental to my life and my husband and kids. I am not easily hurt but my jw family has succeeded in tearing my heart out on more than one occasion. I have tried and God knows it but I need to protect my own mind from their hateful ways. I laughed the other day when I remembered the "bad associations spoil useful habits" verse that was drilled into my head as a kid. To me......they are the bad associations that are killing my sanityand stealing my useful traits! I've rambled and I apologize. I am just in a lot of pain lately about the way my family treats me. I need to move on and stop letting them damage my future, they already robbed my past. Take care azaria. I think moderation is key for us...Once a month should be more than enough to handle for both of us.love, dj
((((((azaria)))))))
I have had similar "discussions" with my JW sister, and they have ended with us both yelling at each other. I was a 3rd generation JW, and am the only one in my immediate family to have left, so things are not as close between us as they used to be.
My advice is to call your Mum, and apologise for getting angry with her. You don't need to apologise for what you said (unless you got abusive) but let her know that you didn't mean to upset her. Now, it may look like you're backing down, but you know and we know that you're not, you're just saying this stuff to keep the peace. And a peaceful relationship with your mother is what you want, right?
Further, it might be an idea not to discuss the JWs or anything along that vein, when you're talking with her. Keep topics to family and general discussion, things that both of you won't get upset over. That's what my sister and I have had to do. Agree to disagree, but do our best not to let the subject of JWs get between us.
After all, you only get one Mum, so try your best to keep a decent relationship with her.
((azaria))
I personally opt for writing. That way, I'll be able to explain myself the way I want after careful editing. And she won't be able to interrupt, or give some remark and look that derails your intention.
When I broach a tough subject with someone with whom I wish to keep a relationship, I try to let them know that the info I've gotten (which now affects my position) is rather upsetting to me as well. I let them know I have been trying to solve it, but have been unable to do it. Invite your mom to see if she can provide an answer for you. She might rise to the occasion, do some asking/research, and actually be affected. Don't dump a lot--give her something provocative and let her do some legwork. Then add more if you can.
Good luck. It does sound like a challenge...
bebu
Well, there already is some pretty good advice here, so I will just add some of my thoughts....
lady lee put it quite well:
Personally I have never apologized for telling the truth. I have apologized for getting angry.
I think this is something I would do in such a situation...apolosize -in a letter for example- for your anger but make sure to explain where that anger came from...you know the hypocracy and able to prove it too:
the 1934 yearbook is excellent for this but quite rare...I doubt you'll find it sitting in the library of the KH. Lady Lee said about 200 JW's died. This is not correct. It were about 800. A good point would be to show how they took the true numbers and blown them up. At a certain point they even said there were 10.000 killed. (if you wish I can send you the sources from their own publications by e-mail)
Be kind but make sure to explain you have solid reasons to be angry with the org, make sure though to say you love them as persons.
Hope this helps....
Greven
Actually it was seedy who mentioned how many people supposedly died
You can get a lot of the info on JWs and Hitler here
http://watchtower.observer.org/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=JWANDHITLER4
I thought the website was taken down but it seems to be still there
You
Actually it was seedy who mentioned how many people supposedly died
You can get a lot of the info on JWs and Hitler here
http://watchtower.observer.org/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=JWANDHITLER4
I thought the website was taken down but it seems to be still there
You should find some scans of the original letter with translation and the 1934 yearbook
Seedy3, I remember reading in a JW Yearbook back around the late fifties or early sixties that all of 255 JWs were exterminated by Hitler. It's right there in their yearbook if you wanna go look it up. But basically, you're absolutely right about the number of JWs killed by the Nazis.
francois
Stick to the pure, unvarnished truth at all times. Do not even think about turning the truth half the diameter of a hair's breadth.
Truth has a power separate and distinct from the truth teller; it's a power inherent in truth itself. And it is only available if you stick to the pure, undiluted truth.
francois
