by azaria 31 Replies latest jw friends
Azaria:
Something I don't believe I mentioned that helped me with my Father. I wrote him a letter I didn't realize how much anger I had the letter was back and front it went on for like 7 pages (14) I thought my hand would fall off. I chose not to send it because I figured he wouldn't change, he would possibly have a stroke and the repercussions with my siblings could be volital. But I got my anger out and it freed me from a lot of the pain.
Azarah it can be very frustrating dealing with this. I'm taking a Psychology course right now and last week, the teacher gave a very interesting example on something that maybe I can relate to you:
In the late 1990s, a cult called The Space Brothers (sort of like the Raliens) said that on New Year's Eve, 1999 the world was going to come to an end, and all the Space Brothers would be taken up to another planet via a UFO. The people in this cult just KNEW they were right and eagerly waited for the End to come. When it didn't, their leader (who of course has a special relationship with the aliens) went in to the next room and stayed in there for 1/2 an hour. When he emerged, he declared to the group that, because of THEIR faithfulness, the aliens had decided not to destroy earth after all. Everyone believed him. (does this sound like Charles Russell in 1914 or what?!)
This is because, whenever someone has invested alot of their time, emotions, or money in to something they believe in, it is EXTREMELY difficult for them to "let go" and many prefer to simply turn a blind eye to the facts and just carry on believing the lie.
This is true whether it's religion, marriage fidelity, or your children being accused of a crime. Look at Scott Peterson's family. Even though all the evidence points to the fact that he killed his wife, his family, in particular his parents, refuse to acknowledge the possibility that their "little boy" could do such a thing. Why is that? Because they've invested a great deal of time, money and emotions, parenting Scott, and they are unwilling to let that go.
This is the same with your mother. As a Witness, she's invested a great deal of time and emotion in to this religion, and even when facts are staring her straight in the face, it's too difficult for her to accept that she's been lied to and that her investment in this religion has crashed to the bottom, so she refuses to accept ANY negative talk about it, even if you can prove it to her.
If she says anything more about the Witnesses being killed during the Holocaust, you should maybe just kindly acknowledge it.......after all, it was a horrible thing to happen. Try to realize that it simply might be too much for her to handle, if she did find out this religion is all bogus and just let her carry on.
My father does the same thing and I use to argue with him about it, but now I don't. He's getting old and he is desperately trying to cling to having some sort of hope and I won't deny him that.
Francios,
Yes they have at times said the truth, in numbers, then to turn around and say something totally different in another instance. I'm unsure why but in one place they try to make i t sound as though 1,000's were killed, then in another year or book they chnage their story. You are correct, I will look up the inof againn and post it for you.
Seedy
Here is an article that Norman Hovland did on the different quotes that the WTS used in the past and the numbers they scrambled to make themselves look better.
http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/ghost.htm
Happy reading
Seedy
A total of 635 had died in prison, 253 had been sentenced to death and 203 of these had actually been executed. What a record of integrity!" (1974 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, p. 212)
As far as I know these are the correct numbers... so 635+203 makes 838 total.
And this is probably also the source of the 255 francois and the 200 seedy mentioned....
838 is quite alot, but this 'record of integrity' was obviously not enough for the GB to advertise with, increasing it even to 10.000, more than 10 times as much!
Greven
Post Script: I know I’m being really self-indulgent, but I’m worth it; darn it, I’m worth it. This post is much longer than I originally intended. I just have the need to write it all down. It may help me; it may help someone else. For those who suffered through to the end it, thank you. Thank you all for responding, and for your support. It really does help a lot. I hope it's legible.
Bluesapphire: I didn’t know about Rutherfords Love letter to Hitler. Does anyone have proof of this? I have seen the document supporting Hitler on the Internet. I don’t understand why this info would be in the 1934 Year Book when the war didn’t start till 1939. Wouldn’t it logically be put in a later book? My mother does know how push buttons. I’m just starting to really understand why she upsets me so.
Seedy3:
Thanks for the info. I’ll look at some of the sites.LadyLee:
I went to my counsellor yesterday. I jokingly told her that the day before I tried to create some drama so I would have something to talk to her about. It is very sad, but to relieve some stress you sometimes have to kid around. Sometimes I say that my parents are comic relief, they are truly so strange, that I sometimes do a double take, what are they doing? Why aren’t the rest of us like that?, or are we, and we just don’t recognize it. My counsellor suggested that I pray beforehand for strength. I have done that, but it was such a spontaneous thing; I didn’t think about it. One thing I will not tolerate is them berating my brothers. She has done the same with my aunt (her sister), who has bent over backwards for her, and I will continue to defend my aunt. How dare she. Part of the reason I stay in contact with her is to try and show her that I am a decent person and hopefully that she sees there is a real truth elsewhere. I have been able to stay calm, but when she attacked my brother again I couldn’t handle her anymore. My father has done so much worse than my brother. My brother has a heart, I’m really not sure if my father does. I do wonder. I do feel I must honour my parents, but I have no respect for them. They’re hypocrites.Utopian Raindrops: I realize that the situation isn’t really about the JW org. We were having problems as a family before they became witnesses. My mother has never been maternal, my father never paternal. He has never told me that he loved me in his life. When my mother said she loved me the few times that she did it was with desperation, her arms around my neck dragging me down. To this day I can’t hug her, and I’m very affectionate. I freely give hugs to most, but I’m not cheap. My children have no desire to see them and my parents have never made an effort to have a relationship with them. The few times that she has called and my daughter picks up, my mother doesn’t even converse with her, just, where’s your mother? When I used to read sad stories from elderly parents, "my children don’t visit me", I automatically thought that if they were anything like my parents it’s no wonder. But I have tried to remain in contact in spite of their difficult nature. My mother was a surprise. My grandmother was 43. Her oldest sister was already married. My aunt (that I mentioned above) was 16 and was in a sense her mother; she took care of her. The third sister also spoiled her, and she had one brother 9 yrs older. She was sickly and was spoiled. When my youngest brothers were in their mid teens she left them for 2 yrs and ran home to her sisters (mothers) in the Netherlands. I don’t think I have ever forgiven her for that. I was up here in Canada and my brothers were in Texas alone together. She abandoned them. I think we all have the capability to change if we really want to; but then we have to grow up, she has never done that. I told her in a nice way about 20 yrs ago that she needed to grow up. She was going through one of her hysterical moments again, and at my house. She was staying with me for a short time. Left my dad again. I know that one of the biggest lessons is to realize that my mother didn’t give me what I wanted or needed. I’m just glad that I didn’t follow in her footsteps. I really do feel sorry for her. I have told my children that first and foremost I am a human being and want to be treated as such, I am then a mother to them.
Big Tex:
I do ask what I’m getting out of the relationship. I guess I’ve always hoped that she would see me, that I was a worthwhile person, that I was caring. She is the toxic person in my life, and I have to ask myself what lesson do I need to learn. Maybe it’s compassion, patience. But I thought I was learning that from my kids, not my mother. I’m not sure if my mother will even talk to me again (but then all she really has left is my father, and he’s always doing his own thing) But I do know I have to put some distance between her and myself. As for controlling, you hit it right on the nail. What I’m just starting to learn is that she is emotionally very controlling. As for what does she give to me in a positive way, she really doesn’t. A few years ago I had to really try hard to find what positive thing she has given me and the only thing I could come up with is that she gave me 3 loving brothers, and a love for classical music. Now that I think of it, that’s something to be really thankful for.SheilaM:
I know mothers and daughters sometimes butt heads. I have a 16 yr old daughter, but it’s so different. My daughter is the daughter and I’m the mother. With my mother the roles were reversed; I was the mother; I held her when she fell apart. She wasn’t there when I was falling apart, she didn’t even know what I was going through. That’s not the child’s role, to continually support the parent. I understand about the control. My father has always been very controlling, but his own life was so out of control. I remember a song when I was a teenager, about You can’t even control your own life, then why are you trying to control mine. Strange, my mother is always raving about my youngest brother. He is a great guy, all three brothers are. But for some reason she accepts the things he does. Does he suck up to her and we don’t? You mentioned you wrote a letter to your father. Wednesday night I lay in bed writing it in my mind and I got really angry, things were coming back to me. Sometimes we don’t realize the anger we carry. As I wrote to someone else I’m planning to write two letters, one I’ll send, the other just to vent.Fairy:
Thanks for the hug. LadyLee I see has already answered your question.Bewise:
I know that getting angry doesn’t help. I hurt her (even though she was the one that threw the remark at me) but I reacted. I think it does go deeper than the JW org. Today I realized that it’s the fact that she has always wanted to be the centre of attention; it’s always about her. I’ve always known that about her. On the surface when I reacted I thought it was because of the JW org (it is in part) but mainly because she needs to be the centre, she’s the one victimized, persecuted, no-one understands her, without any regard to anyone else. I don’t think she realizes that others have pain. I do think that my mother has always been envious of me; that she wants to be me. Once in my twenties I thought I was my mother. It totally freaked me out.Reborn2000:
Funny, I was going to send you a PM. I know we got off on the wrong foot. I know that anger comes from pain. I did say that it’s a mistake to prejudge, but we all do it, and I did. I’m sorry. Thanks for the positive response; it means a lot to me. To be honest each time I saw one of your comments I cringed. You seemed like an articulate, intelligent young person but some of your comments really offended me. I’m truly sorry to hear about your story. You’re mother isn’t much older than I am! I really can’t imagine being totally separated from my family. Thankfully my parents are the only ones. My brothers, relatives aren’t. My two youngest brothers grew up in it and rejected it. I honestly don’t understand how a mother could reject a child because of a belief or unbelief. My kids know that I love them unconditionally. I may not always be a great parent but they know that I love them. They’re not always great kids, but I know that they love me. That an organization can have so much control, is sometimes too hard to fathom. When I had doubts about Jesus, a very dear friend of mine never criticized, she just loved and supported me. Isn’t that what we all want from our parents; what we deserve. When someone is thrown away in a sense, you just become despondent and maybe even angry. To turn against an org isn’t the same as rejecting God. I realize that if I push the truth to my mother it will just confirm in her mind that see, the persecution is starting. mother, and she will just dig in deeper. That’s why I don’t believe in pulling the rug from under their feet. People like my mother are very fragile, it’s the only thing that they have to hang on to, and who am I to take that away from them. Thanks for the hug (I love hugs) Hugs to you also.(and I’m sure your mother doesn’t know what she’s missing by not having a relationship with you, likewise my mother doesn’t realize; they’re cheating themselves)DJ:
I chuckled reading your comment, but with great sadness. Your situation sounds very much like mine. I do plan to apologize to my mother for getting upset, but not for speaking up. She expects me to follow her rules, eg. "I can criticize the church but you can’t say anything negative about the org. even when I throw something at you that you may react to". I don’t understand how a parent can love one child over another. I can see liking one over the other but not love more. Is it for selfish reasons, because a need is met in them. I love both my kids (they’re different) not because they will love me back but just because I love them (now I don’t always like them, but I love them) As for not always being the parent we need to be, I relate to that. I think for a while I treated my kids somewhat like my parents treated me, but thankfully I learned that it wasn’t the right way to treat them. I hope DJ you too can get beyond the pain; to realize that the problem is with them, not us. They rob themselves of what could be a wonderful relationship. I agree, once month may be good, that is if my mother will talk to me. As you can see I ramble too much too, and no I’m not apologizing.Prisca:
I plan to write my mother (have already started) I will write two letters, one to vent, the other I will send her. No I didn’t get abusive, just very upset. I know that it takes the better person to apologize. I’m apologizing because I got upset, not because of what I said. It’s really hard to keep things on certain topics such as family because she criticizes everything. If I try to start anything positive she turns it into something negative, so by the end of the conversation I’m totally exhausted.Bebu:
I totally agree about writing (see Prisca above) I plan to make a copy of it. I wrote her a letter a number of years ago, trying to explain myself, but she totally misunderstood me. All she could ask "Why do you hate me" threw it back at me, why was I such an unfeeling person. I never implied that I hated her. I think that is the brunt of the problem; my feelings where my mother is concerned, always having to prove 1. that I exist 2. that I have feelings 3. that I am a caring, decent person. It really is her problem that she doesn’t see it, not mine. But in my old age I am learning. Thanks for the advice about me asking my mother to provide an answer, but honestly I think my mother, like many people, are afraid because they might find out something that they aren’t ready for.Greven:
Thanks for your response. The fact that 800 JW’s perished is terrible; that people perished is terrible. I guess it was because it came from my mother. She identifies so much with this org. "See I’m a victim, look at me, you persecute me, you don’t understand me". I do hope you send me any info on the subject. I’ll tell you, even though I love my parents, it’s very difficult to tell them that. I don’t like them. A flaw in me I’m sure. So wise for such a young person. Tot ziens.Francois:
Thanks. I know the truth doesn’t change, it can never fall apart. Even as a painfully shy teenager if I felt something to be true, I would say so, accepting the fact that some would reject me. But a young person, I realize now, can often see everything black and white, almost militant. As we get older we tend to mellow, much like a fine wine, right!... right!Mary:
I’ve heard about this. Isn’t it called cognitive -decon something? I realize that the only way I might get through to her is with kindness. This org is the only thing that she has to hang on to, she thinks. At the beginning of our conversation she mentioned that she has always hated being alone. When my father was in the hospital a few months ago, she was very lonely. I thought, didn’t any of her brothers or sisters from the KH visit, phone, send a card? To him, her? She also mentioned she couldn’t imagine life without the org, never mentioning God. If only people could see how caring, intelligent people here can be on this board. Yes many times angry, but on the whole very supportive of each other, something we should be getting from them but don’t.(((everyone))) Come to think of it, tonight please give your better half (those that have one) a big hug (and if in 9 months you have a bundle of joy-not my fault)
Anger comes from pain, anger comes from pain, anger comes from pain..............
wow....I never knew that but it sure explains why I have been so filled with anger for the last few weeks. I have been crushed by by jw family for the past 2 years since my dad became terminally ill. I was prevoiusly shunned but I've been "family business" since he was diagnosed. I have poured my entire heart and soul in every way imaginable to be a loving daughter and sister to my family during this time. I was elated not be shunned and I guess there was a part of me that hoped that they would love me again. It hasn't worked out that way. I have given up my life as I knew it for 2 solid years even neglected my husband and little kids... to help them and they have twisted and lied and backstabbed and used me. I was so genuine but they weren't. I realized that it would never change a few weeks ago when their cruelty culminated into blatant hate. They never were happy to have me back, were they? I was in such pain that I ate, drank and slept pain. This hurt me more than being shunned the first time. I was there for love and they were only putting up with me, their family business. I have been a fire ball of anger for weeks. I was unable to pinpoint why. I had a lot going on. My dad dying is horrible to me. I just always loved him. Anger comes from pain. That fits. I have been angry at the entire world and even the birds that chirped one morning, got yelled at by me. My pain turned into this anger. omg. so now what? I have to let it all go and move on again. I can tell you all who are shunned and feel the pain....it was easier for me to be shunned the first time, than to go back to them for "family business" to be treated one way one day and have the truth about how they hated me all along was even more painful. They actually really only thought of me as business because I am my father's child. Ouch, damn it. what a fool I've been. It hurts so bad this time but I guess I would do it again just to be able to see my pop and I know that he knows just how much I really love him and always have. Yea, I would actually go through all of it again just to have been given the opportunity to have the honor to take care of him. My pain went to anger and now it is back to pain. I'd rather keep the pain and not let ut turn to anger again. I hated my anger. Now I understand what all my fury was.....my pain. So, what do I do with it now? Do I just cry it out? I am afraid that if I let go of my pain and anger that I will forgive them again and go back for more abuse. Why do I need to be loved by those who don't love me? I have a husband and children that really do love me for me. Why would I want what I know I cannot have? I want to thank however said that anger is from pain....I have written this through tears because that lettle statement packed alot of truth for me tonight...so, ty very much.
DJ
People will do anything to be loved and accepted. From the time we are born we believe that our family means survival. As an infant it did. As a JW it did. Normally when we leave we really begin to grow up.
But shunning stops that if we let it.
People will also do just about anything to avoid pain. And that includes using anger to avoid dealing with it. It also includes self-sacrifice. Think you just learned that lesson too.
Sheila mentioned earlier writing a letter but not to send it. The power is in the release of the emotions.
Here is what you do.
Write a letter to each family member. Include these things
Put the letter away for a few days. Take it out and read it. Change the things you need to change. You might erase some or add some but rewrite the letter. Put it away again for another few days. Do this until you take it out one day and realize it says everything that is important.
No personal attacks, Repectful, honest and to the point.
Most people who do this find out by the end that it doesn't matter if they send the letter. The healing work is done inside of you
If however you do decide to send the letter after all this then it will be worth sending. You need to be prepared that they will not listen. The point is not to get them to change but for you to stand up for yourself and speak your truth
Lady,
You are always such a true lady here. I'm glad you are here. It's funny, I have written letters like that intending to send them before but when I finished writing them I always felt better and never felt like sending them. I think that I was writing those letters to try to figure out for myself what I did wrong to cause them to hate me so much. After I would read it to myself, It always validated that I truly didn't deserve the treatment I received and was horrified that people could treat others the way that they do. Then I would let it go. I didn't know that I was doing something normal......lol......I thought that I was just hot headed and needed to vent and then a chicken because I never actually sent them.
The anger comes from pain thing, really made me cry and I don't even need to write that letter this time. I don't understand it, maybe I just needed to know why I was so angry. I scared myself. Yet, when I saw that statement tonight, it rang so true to my soul that the tears flowed and I feel like a refreshed little bird with yet another scar but it's ok. I learned a hard lesson again and I know it won't be my last. If that anger creeps up on me again, I will take your advice and write that letter and this time I will atleast know why I am doing it. Thanks. This has been a real learning class for me tonight. love, dj
