Is ANYONE in charge a real ordained minister? College degrees? Seminary? A real Theological degree?

by WireRider 29 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • TD

    How does one fail a degree in theology?! Seriously, I'd like to know.

    I don't know either. Individual courses might be failed, but the degree itself is a matter of semester hours.

  • rebel8

    Should ministers study the heck out of the book they're trying to teach others? I suppose, but what does it really matter? The original book, which we do not have, was written by humans. The bible fails the sniff test in every branch of science and all types of fact checking. What difference does it make if one more person, in a chain of many people, makes up another layer of nonsense?

    Anyway...I cannot consider a degree in theology legitimate because those programs consider the bible to be true.

  • Finkelstein

    You should bare in mind WireRider that all religions self ordain their own select members.

    Russell you could say was a freelancer in biblical theology and was drawn in toward the Adventist movement of what was around him at the time. His teachings were concocted by himself but influenced from outside sources.

    You must admit he had great charismatic selling abilities accomplished in his public speaking and his own literature publications.

    Nevertheless I think it would be fair to say that he had an easier time selling his own ideas based from the prevailing belief in the bible the general population had and the overall education level of the population.

  • Finkelstein

    In 1919 when J Rutherford proclaimed that god had chosen him and the IBSA that in essence was his self ordination . From there it was his religion to toy with, manipulate and self promote around himself.

  • WireRider

    rebel8 - I agree. I think ministers should UNDERSTAND the book they are teaching others. I don't think just plagiarism of Arius works in any way. The Bible is what it is - human understanding of a certain point in time. I respect it as a guideline - but I never respect it as a rule book.

    Theology is probably closer in nature to philosophy than pure Bible study.

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot


    "He plagiarized the works of Arius that was kicked out of Christianity in 320 AD. Russell was a fraud. Russell was never ordained by any Church."

    I don't know where exactly you're coming from as far as standing in the Christian faith but it seems like you're being doctrinaire. I agree with you about Russell but Arius was a man whose so-called heresy was condemned by a dictatorial religion that was made the official faith by governmental decree. Comparing the two men isn't fair to Arius, a true scholar, no matter what you believe about his doctrines.

  • OrphanCrow
    wirerider: In what world did Russell have any business to publish such crap as the made up "Studies in the Scriptures"??

    In the American corporate world. If it sells, it is profit. Free enterprise. Russell took hope, packaged it up as a commodity, and sold it.

    America - Land of the Free.

  • Mephis

    An ex of mine did her theology degree after her BA in another subject as she decided to become an Anglican vicar. Learned a lot by osmosis and lazy pillow talk about religion as she did it. Curiously enough, the only part of the bible she genuinely believed in was the historicity of Jesus. Everything else was open to debate, discussion and critique. According to surveys of the Church of England, 1 in 50 CofE vicars in Britain don't believe in God as anything but a human construct. Broad church...

    Not sure of the academic standards involved with some institutions but perfectly possible to fail a degree course of any sort here in Britain, although if your work wasn't even of Pass standard then it would be unlikely you'd ride it out for 3 years. But certificates of attendance do exist, so it's not unknown.

  • truthseeker100
    How does one fail a degree in theology? Good question? I have never said there is no such thing as a stupid question.!! LOL
  • Clambake

    I was in the KH once with my wife and carrying my NIV and started to get some unwanted attention from the witnesses. One asked to see my bible and flipped to the book of john , right to chapter one and she was “ The word was a god, not god “. She was a real uber bitch type.

    I then asked her to explain the book of John and what makes it different than the other gospels ?

    She looked at me like she had seen a ghost.

    I later went on to explain to her how the book of john unlike the other gospels deals with the issue the person of Jesus Christ and who he really was. I started to point out to her some of the I AM statements and old testament quotes and who the author thought Jesus was.

    She just walked away and later told the elders.

    I am hardly a theologian but I think it is good to study the bible in terms of context and audience. It’s not a matter of passing or failing. It to have enough brains to know when someone is creating dogma by cherry picking verses.

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