This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty 496 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • John_Mann
    John_Mann
    You are having a joke with me, right? You are, aren't you??

    No I'm not. And I'm not trying to sell you some magazines too. Lol

    Just try to imagine your time of death and your consciousness disappearing to nothing forever.

    You will notice that your mind will be filled with a very unique sensation/intuition of someway somehow you will be alright and you will wake up again. Meanwhile your intellect will give some explanation: future scientists will resurrect me or aliens or Thor, etc...

    Just think about your hour of death and you will know what I'm talking about. I'm sure you already done that a lot of times.

    There's something in you that's immortal and you simply know it. It's that simple.

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice
    John_mann - You will notice that your mind will be filled with a very unique sensation/intuition of someway somehow you will be alright and you will wake up again.

    I don't get that at all. I just understand the reality that everything has it's time and everything dies. When I die, it's total oblivion. All erased forever. All futile.

    I am more along the lines of this - http://metro.co.uk/2017/02/27/the-large-hadron-collider-has-proved-that-ghosts-dont-exist-brian-cox-claims-6475352/

  • deegee
    deegee

    John_Mann,

    This has certainly been an interesting debate regarding the soul.

    Are there aspects of the mind that owe nothing to the physical functioning of the brain?

    Are there aspects of the mind that do not correspond to any physical area of the brain?

    What exactly does the soul do that confers consciousness on us, and is this influence transmitted to the brain?

    Does an immaterial soul interact with a brain and body of matter? Does the soul control the body at all?

    If so, how exactly does it do this? What force or causal influence does it exert, and by what mechanism? By what mechanism can an immaterial soul possibly alter the state of the body or affect the brain?

    Why would God create an immutable/unchangeable soul-nature and then make it subject to the changeable and imperfect nature of a fallible material body, and judge it for the actions committed by that body?

    Why do we even need such bodies, if at best they can only allow the true nature of the soul to shine through unaltered, and at worst obscure it?

    What is God’s rationale for imprisoning souls in bodies and holding the souls responsible for the uncontrollable irrationalities of those bodies?

    Where is the soul hiding?
    "The soul is spiritual or metaphysical it can't be detected by scientific method."

    To say something is “spiritual” or “immaterial” does not explain what it is, but only what it is not; all it means is that an immaterial object neither feels nor exerts any of the forces that act on matter.

    In my opinion, in invoking "spiritual" or "metaphysical", we know no more than when we started; we have not answered the question, merely moved it beyond the realm of the answerable. This only muddies the waters, adding additional levels of complexity and mystery without actually explaining anything.

    "There are animal brains much more sophisticated than humans and they don't produce consciousness."

    Which animals are these?

  • deegee
    deegee

    John_Mann,

    The destruction or alteration of small parts of the brain during life have such a dramatic and profound effect on a person.

    The fact that brain injury can alter the self, strongly implies that the brain is the true seat of the self.

    The evidence shows that our identity, personality and behaviour are completely determined by the physical configuration of the brain, and that a change to this configuration can alter or eliminate any of them.

    The following neurological disorders, for example, provide undeniable evidence that our identity, personality and behaviour are unified with the brain, and can be dramatically influenced by causes beyond our control which affect the brain:

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/essays/a-ghost-in-the-machine/#part2:

    * Anterograde or pure amnesia

    * Near-total retrograde amnesia

    * Callosal Disconnection

    * Alien Hand Syndrome

    * Paralysis and Denial

    * Capgras’ Syndrome

    * The Strange Case of Phineas Gage

    * Frontotemporal Dementia

    * Euphoria and Emotional “Deadness”

    * Psychosis and Depression

    * Behavioral Alterations Caused by Tumors

    * Akinesia

    * Environmental Dependency Syndrome

    * Aphasia

    * Akinetic Mutism

    * Pain asymbolia

    * Synesthesia

    Brain injury and neurological disorders prove that consciousness is fundamentally a physical phenomenon and that the brain mediates and controls all aspects of consciousness; every part of the mind is entirely dependent on and controlled by the brain.

    See also:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=esPRsT-lmw8

  • deegee
    deegee

    John_Mann,

    According to you, the soul lives on after death, so, have you heard from any of your friends or relatives who may have died?

    If you have, did they tell you what the afterlife is like and about their conversations with God?

  • deegee
    deegee

    John_Mann,

    Getting back to the issue of natural evil:

    Your previous comments suggest that natural evil did not exist before Adam & Eve's fall - that is, it was The Fall that caused natural evil.

    In excess of 99% of earth & biological scientists date the age of the earth at about 4.5 billion years ago, when the surface crust of the earth coalesced.

    Fossil records of primitive life date back to about 3.5 billion years ago.

    According to the Bible, Adam & Eve were created approximately 6,000 years ago.

    What proof do you have that natural evil did not exist before Adam & Eve?

  • John_Mann
    John_Mann
    Are there aspects of the mind that owe nothing to the physical functioning of the brain?
    Are there aspects of the mind that do not correspond to any physical area of the brain?
    What exactly does the soul do that confers consciousness on us, and is this influence transmitted to the brain?
    Does an immaterial soul interact with a brain and body of matter? Does the soul control the body at all?
    If so, how exactly does it do this? What force or causal influence does it exert, and by what mechanism? By what mechanism can an immaterial soul possibly alter the state of the body or affect the brain?

    Neuroplasticity. Intentional behaviour changes the matter in the brain.

    Why would God create an immutable/unchangeable soul-nature and then make it subject to the changeable and imperfect nature of a fallible material body, and judge it for the actions committed by that body?

    Because He wanted this way. The judgement is related to the intentions of the immortal soul and not the body.

    Why do we even need such bodies, if at best they can only allow the true nature of the soul to shine through unaltered, and at worst obscure it?

    The human body came first by evolution. The human nature is designed to be a double nature.

    What is God’s rationale for imprisoning souls in bodies and holding the souls responsible for the uncontrollable irrationalities of those bodies?

    The original plan was the soul having perfect control over the body. And humans are not imprisoned ghosts and are not only physical bodies. Human nature is the union of spirit and matter. The imperfect union between soul and body is temporary and the soul without the body is a temporary state too.

    Which animals are these?

    Globicephala melas: "For the first time, we show that a species of dolphin has more neocortical neurons than any mammal studied to date including humans

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4244864/


    The evidence shows that our identity, personality and behaviour are completely determined by the physical configuration of the brain, and that a change to this configuration can alter or eliminate any of them.

    The soul needs the brain to be functional in order to interact in the material world. But brain damage doesn't have any effects on soul. It's just like a broken radio can't do a good reception from the broadcast. But it doesn't mean the malfunction of a radio set affects the broadcasting source.

  • John_Mann
    John_Mann
    According to you, the soul lives on after death, so, have you heard from any of your friends or relatives who may have died?
    If you have, did they tell you what the afterlife is like and about their conversations with God?

    Souls after the death of the body are only in heaven, purgatory or hell. They can't contact the living and vice versa.

    Your previous comments suggest that natural evil did not exist before Adam & Eve's fall - that is, it was The Fall that caused natural evil.

    Moral or natural evil requires consciousness to be perceived. So only after creation of the soul, humans were able to perceive evil. It's just like the Buddhist koan about the tree falling without nobody to hear it.

    There's an interesting psychology theory about the origin of consciousness in humans that explains how humans existed without consciousness:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology)

  • Saethydd
    Saethydd
    According to you, the soul lives on after death, so, have you heard from any of your friends or relatives who may have died?
    If you have, did they tell you what the afterlife is like and about their conversations with God?

    Souls after the death of the body are only in heaven, purgatory or hell. They can't contact the living and vice versa.

    I'm going to restate a question that I've asked twice now. What is your source of information? Who has given you all this supposed knowledge on the inner workings of the soul? According to you, souls that have been separated from the body (presumably the only souls that can remember being heaven, hell, or purgatory) can't speak with us physical beings to corroborate anything you're saying on the subject. As far as I can tell you have a lot of "answers" but zero proof.

    "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christoper Hitchens

  • Chook
    Chook

    I do believe, I believe he wants nothing to do with me.

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