Remembering Rutherford

by Sea Breeze 156 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    I'm thinking that the WT owned the two automobiles instead of Rutherford, just as the WT owned Beth Sarim. I'm thinking the WT provided the automobiles for Rutherford's use without Rutherford being the owner of them. Similarly I think around the year 1997 my congregation (about a few years before I stopped attending) announced that the WT would start providing an automobile (specifically a Cadillac, I think) for each traveling overseer (at least the district overseers?) to use in their shepherding work, with the WT owning the cars instead of the overseers having to continue buy their own cars. When I inquired about why they will each have an expensive car (at least to me they were expensive ones) I think an elder told me they were more reliable or had lower maintenance costs (and that the total cost of ownership was thus about the same as cheaper cards), or something like that.

    I think that Rutherford's writing theological/religious books and getting them published is a form of religious ministry as well as him giving public talks (including at conventions), even though those activities are not in the form of door-to-door ministry.

    Regarding the claims posted by people on this site of Rutherford having been a drunkard and sexually immoral, what documented proof (if any) is there of such claims?

  • Gorb
    Gorb

    Corrupt psycho.

    Gorby

  • Overrated
    Overrated

    Delusions of a corrupt Drunk. Pass the Booze.

  • minimus
    minimus

    Dis JW … are you supportive of Rutherford, an apologist? Sure seems like you may have left the Watchtower but the Watchtower never really left you.

  • Rivergang
    Rivergang

    Documented proof?

    The bastard was too cunning to leave much if any of that around. There is, though, circumstantial evidence aplenty that he loved his booze. Also, his conduct with certain female staff members would have been enough to get him disfellowshipped in the JW world of today.

  • minimus
    minimus

    Just don’t call him Booze Rutherford. He was clearly a man of God.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    Walter F. Salter, the Society's former branch manager in Canada, wrote a public letter to Rutherford in 1937...claiming that Rutherford had exclusive use of "luxurious" and "expensive" residences (in Brooklyn, Staten Island, Germany, and San Diego), as well as two Cadillacs[211][212][213] and alleged that on more than one occasion he had purchased for Rutherford cases of whiskey, brandy, beer and other liquors, and 'go from "drink to drink"'.[214]

    In July 1939 Olin R. Moyle, legal counsel for the Society, wrote an open letter of resignation to the president, in which he complained about behavior of some members of the Watch Tower Society, including Rutherford himself, that he considered excessive and inappropriate. Moyle mentioned California when discussing "the difference between the accommodations furnished to you, and your personal attendants, compared with those furnished to some of your brethren." Moyle also accused Rutherford of "unkind treatment of the staff, outbursts of anger, discrimination and vulgar language" and condemned his allowing the "glorification of alcohol" at Bethel.[215][216][217]

    Penton...claims Rutherford's drinking habits were "notorious" and cites unnamed former Brooklyn Bethel workers who told of occasional difficulties in getting Rutherford to the podium to give public talks due to inebriation.[218]

    File:Joseph Franklin Rutherford and friends, drinking alcohol.jpg

    Cheers!

  • Rocketman123
    Rocketman123

    Regarding the claims posted by people on this site of Rutherford having

    been a drunkard and sexually immoral, what documented proof (if any) is there of such claims?

    Well its documented that he was separated from his wife right up until his death,

    His live in female assistant which the name escapes me, claimed in court regarding a dispute over his will that she was very much his wife until his death.

    As a result it doesn't take much imagination to connect the dots to their personal relationship..

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    Hi minimus. Those are good questions you asked me. I don't think of myself as an apologist for Rutherford, especially considering that I am an atheist who promotes atheism. But I also am not quick to believe accusations about someone made on a blog site without seeing any evidence to back up the accusations. Though I am an atheist, I still read the Bible (in multiple translations), some WT books, and other religious books. It is true that I can't seem to fully leave the study of the WT religion (and of religion in general) behind, including the study of WT literature. Maybe I am like a college professor of mythology and fiction literature who does not believe (at least literally) in the stories of mythology or fiction, but who still finds them fascinating to read and to study. I also own a book about Greek mythology and a book about teachings attributed to the Buddha.

    There is much I disagree with and disapprove in WT literature, but there are also some things I agree with and approve of in WT literature. One thing I like to do is look for ways to show people that religion is false and that they should stop being religious. As a result I have to study the Bible and other religious literature to find the flaws in them so I point them out to others. But also, in the process of studying them I find some good ideas in them and some good literary styles in them (as works of fiction literature). Some of what Rutherford wrote about religion are true and useful talking points in those regards. I really like his slogan of "religion is a snare and racket".

    For the first 10 years after I became inactive as a JW I became more interested and studious of the Bible and religion. That is because I was (and am) free to study it my own way (and ask myself critical questions about it) and use whatever books I wanted to (such as some from "Christendom") to help study it. As a result I ended up becoming an independent Christian and was such for a few years (or several years) before I became a non-theist. About 20 years after I ceased being active as a JW I now find myself being engrossed in reading some of the WT literature (and currently being unwilling to sell it), though I have sold off most the bound volumes I had of the Watchtower. To my shock and worry I now find myself thinking that some of their teachings (ones that I didn't accept for a period of time) now seem sensible (if one accepts some suppositions, presuppositions, or propositions/premises) of theirs as a starting point in a line of argumentation). For example the idea that the United Nations can be thought of as the image of the 7 headed wild beast of Revelation in some ways now seems to be a more supported idea than when I thought about it as a former ministerial servant and as a former regular pioneer. That is because now I do much more in depth study and contemplation of the argumentation used by the WT on that topic than when I was a JW, for when I was a JW (and especially when I was an unbaptized pre-teen who had a very hard time understanding the in-depth books at the time) I was mostly only studying it because I thought it was my obligation to do so. Now when I study it I do so out of curiosity.

    Many years ago I obtained some of Rutherford's (and Russell's) books so I see if they contain evidence that the WT was not chosen as the channel (and representative) of Jehovah God. I did find much evidence of such, but now I have moved past only using Rutherford's books for that purpose, for now I also study Rutherford's books to see if there are any good ideas in them. Some of what Rutherford says about politics, big business and organized religion seem true to me. Some of his interpretations about the Bible seem to be what the Bible writers meant (even though I think the Bible writers were wrong on many things, for example I now know that Jehovah God is not real). Some of the advice in the WT literature about beneficial ways to live (including how to treat others and how to prosper) are correct. I have found some of the sources (including secular ones) quoted in some WT literature as having good information, and some of those sources agree with some of the WT's teachings. If I hadn't read the WT literature I would not have learned of most of those sources.

    Rivergang, what evidence (circumstantial or otherwise) is there of Rutherford engaging in improper conduct (at least by JW religion standards) with any females? One thing that might support the accusations and also which is interesting, is that somewhere I read that Rutherford wrote condemnations about the Roman Catholic church's policy of excommunication and/or anathema - things similar to JW disfellowshipping). It seems that Rutherford claimed that "disfellowshipping" was a bad practice. I think I read in the WT book called Jehovah's Witnesses In The Divine Purpose that the WT taught in that book that excommunication is wrong.

    Note: I began writing this post before the two prior posts (the one by Sea Breeze and the one by Rocketman123) had been made. Thank you Sea Breeze and Rocketman123 for those posts.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    In the Booze Rutherford photo I posted above, it looks like Rutherford had a head start on everyone else. I wonder if anyone wrote on his face after he passed out?

    And this is the man who named, shaped, and promoted the modern day Jehovah's Witnesses! How can anyone in their right mind still be in this evil organization?

    I have dozens of family members in it. I just can't figure it out.

    Here's the naked truth about Rutherford's "travelling companion".

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