Sign of the Last Days

by Fisherman 60 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • mikeflood
    mikeflood

    Earthquakes? It had been happening on Earth since billions of years ago....

    Yeah, yeah ...some geological epochs are more active than others. However geological times goes by millions and millions of years, and as I read somewhere else earthquakes are necessary (specially near tectonic boundaries)...if not Earth would become flat with no mountains at all.

    As for sign of the times, the huge ones in San Andreas or Cascadia could happen in a couple of minutes or in a 300 years span or more, who knows?

  • SydBarrett
    SydBarrett

    "Here's one for you, Syd. Not bad for a 2,000 year old prophecy. It's one you can look out for.

    11 Then I saw another beast coming up from the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but was speaking like a dragon.

    13 He performed momentous signs, even making fire come down from heaven in front of people (Rev. 13:11, 13 NET)"

    Why does God speak in hokey symbolism that could apply to all sorts of things throughout history if the readers imagination is wild enough??

    If the writer had recorded the words "lockheed-martin" or "laser" 2000 years ago with no clue to their meaning, then i'd be impressed.

  • fezzik
    fezzik

    I tend to believe Jesus wasn't saying all those things were signs of the end. At Matthew 24:6 he says: "See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet." This fits with all the wars, hunger, famine, disasters, etc throughout history and zealots claiming the end is nigh. Jesus simply said, no one knows the day or the hour and stay awake.

    Basically, it will come when it comes. Don't fall for all the end of times cries.

  • Konagirl
    Konagirl

    In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus foretold that earthquakes “in one place after another” would be part of the sign of the last days clímaxing in the great tribulation.

    Luke 17:20 - Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation”.

    observation – “inspection, ocular evidence”.

    If we take these words as the truth that they are, then Jesus is not talking about literal earthquakes or wars among nations to be observed, or to keep our eyes on. There are two sets of signs, one that Jesus is speaking about, and one that creates a diversion tactic, a deterrent from the real “war” and real “earthquakes” that affect an individual. Real, meaning the spiritual, not the physical. 1 Cor 2:14 “The whole world lies in the power of the wicked one” 1 John 5:19. Although the earth is bound to have earthquakes anyway, Satan can also create his own set of signs that requires observation. The Wt. has set up a kingdom, that can be observed and revered. But Jesus said right after Luke 17:20 - “ nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” That’s not something that can be observed, but only felt. We see Satan’s power at work in the book of Job. He can also convince people to look for those physical signs, through the mouths of his “ministers” – false teachers/prophets. 2 Cor 11:13-15

    In Luke 21, the very first thing that Jesus tells us is that false teachers/ prophets will arise saying “the time is at hand”, and they will appear to represent Christ. He says, don’t go after them (Luke 21:8); but guess what, those who became JWs, certainly did go after them; especially the “elect”/saints/anointed priests-kings, which was prophesied to happen. Matt 7:15; 24:24,25; Luke 22:31; 1 Tim 4:1; Col 2:8; Rev 13:10

    He then mentions wars, famine, earthquakes. But he says, “But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for my name’s sake.“ Luke 21:12-13

    For the sake of Jesus Christ, not for being a JW. John 16:2,3

    So, we’re back to the presence of false prophets (because it mentions religious synagogues/”congregations”), and what they do to those who reject their teachings. If, in the organization we stand up for the words of Christ over the words of the GB, what happens? We are “brought before” the ruling elders under the authority of anointed “kings” (Rev 5:9,10), “governors”. Luke 21:12-13; Matt 10:18; Luke 22:24-26 We give our testimony to Christ’s teachings, we expose the lies in the same manner that Jesus did.

    And, what comes next does happen as a result:

    “You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 17 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake.” Luke 21:16-17

    If the signs are spiritual, then this “death” in this day, is through disfellowshipping. (Rev 13:11,12,15)

    17 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake.”

    Those “apostates” who leave the lies and reject the organization as belonging to God, are certainly hated. If we use the words of Jesus, the scriptures, to refute the lies when before a judicial committee, the hammer comes down. (John 16:2; Rev 13:10,15)

    So what kind of earthquakes is Jesus talking about? The tremors and upheaval in the “soil”/earth of our heart when we find out we were serving the lie. Our heart undergoes change. Heb 12:27 And “earthquakes” that come from God, a shaking of His people. Matt 13:18-23; Hos 10:12; Isa 7:2; Isa 52:2; Amos 9:9; Jer 31:33

    And the wars? Jesus faced a war in his day against the Pharisees, a war of his truth against their lies. Luke 20:20; Mark 3:1,2; John 8:13-14,23-24,39-47

    It was a decision-making war for all who heard his message. Joel 3:14 Don’t we also see this today? There is the term coined, “the Vast Apostate Army”, dedicated to bring down the Wt. About the apostates, D. Splain himself said, "Brothers and Sisters, this is war”.

    The two “Beasts” that “kill” any who refuse to worship it, (Rev 13:5,8), “make war with the saints”. (Rev 13:7)

    And there, is the war that Jesus was talking about that happens to the anointed in the last days. Sure, the world is physically suffering from wars, but as Paul said, our war is spiritual, not carnal. There are anointed ones very active outside the organization, using God’s Word to tear down the GB’s lies. 1 Cor 11:19; 2 Cor 10:3-6 Those that remain inside the organization, believe in watching and counting the earthquakes and wars that they can observe, expecting the Kingdom to arrive any minute, but they are totally blind to the trap that they believe is their salvation. Amos 5:18

    Oh, and famine - “Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord God,
    “That I will send a famine on the land,
    Not a famine of bread,
    Nor a thirst for water,
    But of hearing the words of the Lord. Amos 8:11

    So, am I putting to much emphasis on the Watchtower? There are a remnant of genuine anointed who are the target of deception. They belong to Christ, they are his kings of the earth/priests. (Rev 1:5,6; 1 Pet 2:5,9) Just as Satan was trying to deceive and destroy Christ, he is also wanting to destroy the members of Christ’s body…using deceit through the mouths of false prophets/teachers.

    I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits, something like frogs; 14 for they are spirits of demons, performing signs; which go out to the kings of the whole inhabited earth, to gather them together for the war of that great day of God, the Almighty.

    15 “Behold, I come like a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his clothes, so that he doesn’t walk naked, and they see his shame.”

    16 He (the dragon) gathered them together into the place which is called in Hebrew, “Megiddo”.

    Armageddon

    Luke 22:31-32

  • Duran
    Duran
    So, am I putting to much emphasis on the Watchtower? There are a remnant of genuine anointed who are the target of deception. They belong to Christ, they are his kings of the earth/priests.

    Absolutely too much emphasis. If their claim to fame (to being appointed the f&ds) in 1919 is a false teaching, then what basis is there to think that Jesus has anything more or less to do with them than any of all the other so-called Christian faiths? What is the poof that there are any genuine anointed among watchtower?

    In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus foretold that earthquakes “in one place after another” would be part of the sign of the last days clímaxing in the great tribulation.


    4578. seismos

    a earthquake,

    a storm - a violent disturbance of the atmosphere with strong winds and usually rain, thunder, lightning, or snow.

    hurricane, tornado, snowstorm, blizzard, rainstorm, ice storm

    POD

    GT

  • mikeflood
    mikeflood

    Yay !!!....then is the Global Warming...a.k.a. Climate Change...

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    Matt is striking in his use of the word seismos in the calming the sea episode. Luke follows his (and Matt's) source, Mark, in saying the lailaps (wind storm) was rocking the boat. The simplest explanation is that Matt was referring to the commotion of the water appearing like an earthquake. Either that or Matt was again altering his source to introduce an earthquake as he does at the death scene.

    All three use the word seismos as one of the signs. If storms were intended, the authors would have used the word for storms, lailaps.

  • Duran
    Duran
    If storms were intended, the authors would have used the word for storms, lailaps.

    That is a fair statement and good observation but if earthquakes were also to occur as well then seismos is the right word to use. Using lailaps there would rule out earthquakes occurring.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Re: Matthew 24

    6. AND YE SHALL HEAR OF WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS:
    SEE THAT YE BE NOT TROUBLED; FOR ALL THESE THINGS
    MUST COME TO PASS, BUT THE END IS NOT YET.

    Comments: Were these preliminary signs fulfilled prior to 70AD?

    WARS: B.N. There was much civil strife and many uprisings in the
    Roman Empire in the first century It is recorded in the histories of
    Rome, that the most violent agitations prevailed in the Roman
    empire previous to the destruction of Jerusalem. Four emperors,
    Nero, Galba, Otho and Vitellius, suffered violent deaths in the short
    space of 18 months. In consequence of these changes in the
    government, there were commotions and bloody and violent warring
    throughout the empire

    COMMENTS: Were these signs present prior to Jerusalem's destruction?

    NATION... AGAINST NATION AND KINGDOM AGAINST KINGDOM:
    In Caesarea, Jews and Syrians had disagreements that ended in the
    expulsion of the Jews and the slaying of about 20,000 of them. 20,000
    more were slain in nearby areas because of problems related to the
    expulsion. In Alexandria, about 50,000 Jews were slain, and in
    Damascus 10,000. The Roman Empire continued to wage wars to
    suppress uprisings; the worst war occurring between 66-70 AD.
    In Josephus' "Wars, Book II" we see that Cestius was defeated by
    the Jews. In February 67, Nero appointed Vespasian to wage war
    in Palestine, deploying 60,000 men in Galilee. He fought through till
    Autumn 67 and prepared through the winter for a final attack in June 68.
    He had to wait after Nero's suicide in 68 but later once again took
    control of Hebron. The war was again interrupted as Vespasian
    returned to Rome. Titus was sent to resume the war in 69 and the
    final critical 134 day siege of Jerusalem began,

    PESTILENCES: Raging epidemic diseases often attended famine.
    Severe pestilences were recorded in Babylonia AD 40 (Josephus)
    and also Italy, AD 66 (Tacitus) prior to Jerusalem's destruction.

    EARTHQUAKES: Many earthquakes preceded th destruction of
    Jerusalem. Tactitus mentions one in the reign of Claudius, at
    Rome; during the reign of Neroin the cities of Laodicea,
    Hierapolis, and Colosse; and the celebrated Pompeii was
    overwhelmed, and almost destroyed by an earthquake. Others
    are mentioned as occurring at Smyrna, Miletus, Chios and Samos.

    BEGINNING OF SORROWS: Far greater calamities were to
    come prior to the end.

    DELIVER YOU UP TO BE AFFLICTED: by persecution, prison,
    scourging MARK'S GOSPEL ADDS, "THEY SHALL DELIVER
    YOU UP TO THE COUNCILS SYNAGOGUES, RULERS AND
    KINGS FOR HIS NAMES SAKE".COUNCIL: Peter and John were

    brought before the Sanhedrim (Acts 4:5,6,7).

    BEFORE SYNAGOGUES, RULERS AND KINGS
    (see Acts 4:3; Paul and Silas before magistrates
    (Acts 16:23, 24). Paul was brought before Gallio
    Acts 18:12; Felix Acts 24:24, Agrippa Acts 25:23

    AND SHALL KILL YOU: Stephen was the first martyr;
    he was stoned after council judgment Acts 7:59
    James was killed by Herod. Acts 12:2

    Many Christians perished under Nero, including most
    of the apostles (Luke's account adds that He would give
    them wisdom which none of their adversaries could
    gainsay or resist Lu.21:14-15) Stephen before the
    Sanhedrin & Paul before Felix.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Here is an interesting commentary...and you won't believe where it came from...

    In the years leading up to 66 C.E., Christians would have seen many of the preliminary elements of the composite sign being fulfilled-wars, famines, even an extensive preaching of the good news of the Kingdom. (Acts 11:28; Colossians 1:23) When, though, would the end come? What did Jesus mean when he said: 'This generation [Greek, ge.ne.a'] will not pass away'? Jesus had often called the contemporaneous mass of opposing Jews, including religious leaders, 'a wicked, adulterous generation.' (Matthew 11:16; 12:39, 45; 16:4; 17:17; 23:36) So when, on the Mount of Olives, he again spoke of "this generation," he evidently did not mean the entire race of Jews throughout history; nor did he mean his followers, even though they were "a chosen race." (1 Peter 2:9) Neither was Jesus saying that "this generation" is a period of time.

    Rather, Jesus had in mind the opposing Jews back then who would experience the fulfillment of the sign he gave. Regarding the reference to "this generation" at Luke 21:32, Professor Joel B. Green notes: "In the Third Gospel, 'this generation' (and related phrases) has regularly signified a category of people who are resistant to the purpose of God. . . . [It refers] to people who stubbornly turn their backs on the divine purpose." *

    The wicked generation of Jewish opposers who could observe the sign being fulfilled would also experience the end. (Matthew 24:6, 13, 14) And that they did! In 70 C.E., the Roman army returned, led by Titus, son of Emperor Vespasian. The suffering of the Jews who were again bottled up in the city is almost beyond belief." Eyewitness Flavius Josephus reports that by the time the Romans demolished the city, about 1,100,000 Jews had died and some 100,000 were taken captive, most of those soon to perish horribly from starvation or in Roman theaters. Truly, the tribulation of 66-70 C.E. was the greatest that Jerusalem and the Jewish system had ever experienced or would ever experience. How different the outcome was for Christians who had heeded Jesus' prophetic warning and had left Jerusalem after the departure of the Roman armies in 66 C.E.!
    ___________________
    \

    Matthew 24: 1 -35 is prophecy fulfilled which is not repeatable. Matt 24:31, Luke 21:24

    All these things happened to Christ's generation; "this generation" always referred to his own in the gospels; "this" not "that" or "this and that" generation. "These stones" can not come down again; the armies (abomination) that caused such desolation are long gone; those in Judaea will not have to flee to the hills again or be slain by swords or shipped off to all nations where they are today.

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