Oroborus is YoYoMama?????

by bluesapphire 62 Replies latest jw friends

  • Stan Conroy
    Stan Conroy

    Hi Eduardo,

    I agree with you that many here have formed their own little judgemental groups. It actually does a disservice to the intent of this site to be so derogatory toward the JWs and the WT. Many honest JW's looking to get the real scoup on the WT will be turned off to this site by the constant name calling and hatred shown toward anybody supporting the JW side. The term "troll" is quickly thrown out as soon as somebody expresses agreement with the WT.

    I guess you can take the boy out of the JW's but you can't take the JW out of the boy. Those who seem to protest the loudest against the JW's seem to act the most like them.

    Just my humble opinion, of course...


  • Farkel

    I remember Eduardo from the H20 days. He was going to law school then. He's not a troll, just a JW defender.

    Good to cya here again, Eduardo.


  • hillary_step

    I agree with Orborus that many JW's that do come to this Board do not deserve the treatment that they get and that much of this behavior is a 'transference' problem. It is hard, if not impossible, as a member of the WTS to be able to speak about doctrinal matters to anybody who really counts without ending up disfellowshipped and shunned.

    Many who have gone this route are angry and bitter about the treatment they received and perhaps unable to move on from this experience wait for a target to come into sight and then fire the howitzer. It is not ideal behavior, but it is certainly understandable. I believe that in recent months this site has become much more JW friendly, and I see persons such as 'HappyMan' who are active JW's regular contributors and respected by many posters on this Board, including myself. Why? Because he treats people on this Board as his friend, not potential Armageddon fodder as others do.

    What does not seem to help is the standard of JW who does arrive here to defend their Organization. Many of them are arrogant, rude, dismissive and superior when they arrive and on being challanged in their beliefs prove themselves quite capable of some of the worst behavior that we see on JW.com. Personally, I will never make allowances for people who have been used to pontificating without challenge in their Kingdom Halls and who expect the same here, from having to learn the realities of on-line debate.


  • calamityjane

    Yeah, Simon, this guy is a nuisance.

  • Englishman

    Yes I remember Eduardo, he roasted me a couple of times at H20. "JW pays apostate £20,000", I recall. Nonetheless he has some valid points to make and is most definitely not of the troll persuasion.


  • ThiChi

    "However, this is a board with many people whom have had their lives terribly damaged by this religion, and it would be strange not to have persons feel this way about the religion. "

    So, lets treat "them" the same way the religion has treated us? Two wrongs do not make a right my friend. And, it makes us no better. If you want to argue about the religion, then fine. Exploring the reasons for the Jws claims is valid. However, If you want to single out persons and attack them, shun them for their different views, then count me out.

    "If we want truth, then a person should be able say what he thinks without fear."

  • ignored_one

    I dunno about Oroborus but scholar seems familar.

    I mean, 130 odd posts in over 2 yrs?

    Someone setting up multiple accounts a while back to have fun with at a later date?

    Ignored One.

  • Oroborus21

    Gosh I am glad there are some people that still remember me from H20

    After all I at one time was even the "JW Apoligist" that did an early analysis and counter argument to Liberal Elder's New Light on Blood site which they even posted!

    AS mentioned I have never been a cookie-cut JW. I was given a wide amount of freedom of choice as kid and teen so I was involved with extracurriculars, played sports, went to prom etc. Wasn't on the MS and went out in formal service maybe a dozen times prior to my moving out. The vast majority of my friends were not Witnesses. In truth, with the exception of not celebrating holidays and other JW markers, and not getting involved with alchohol, fornication, smoking, etc.--I lived pretty much like any normal teenager.

    After my freshman year at USC (Go Trojans!) I got baptized and was a baptized JW from 1990-2001. I do attend meetings currently (pretty much WT/Public Address only) and keep abreast of organizational info and developments.

    My parents have been JWs since 1948 and much of my family are also JWs.

    As mentioned, several doctrines and beliefs and cultural aspects of the Organization, I have always rejected or had a problem with (since early teen hood) most notably the practice of Disfellowshipping, the lack of freedom of expression in dress and grooming, freedom of speech, certain observed hypocracy of individuals and especially and most importantly the bi-polar (not meant in a medical sense so don't take offense anyone) systemic problem described in this excerpt from a paper I have composed on the FDS Doctrine:

    "...This is a continuing perversion that permeates the Organization. As seen in this study, Jehovah’s Witnesses are instructed, demanded and required to completely adhere to the teachings and direction of the “Faithful and Discreet Slave” as they understand it to be embodied by the Society (Bethel). They are to wholly accept current doctrine and disregard (old) doctrine upon immediate notice. Yet at the same time that they are receiving such current teaching, held to be on the level of “divinely inspired truth”, there is always the existing “loophole” that the FDS is actually fallible, imperfect and capable of error.

    This allows the Organization to remain perpetually irresponsible for its own teachings and direction. And worse, usually it is the faithful who are blamed for any harm that results from such loyal adherence to the Society, by statements from the Society saying that the friends were “overeager,” “running ahead,” or “were too enthusiastic in their understanding.” The following is a typical reaction on the part of the Society when the “divine instruction” turns out to be spoiled food: ..."

    For any that do remember me or for further clarification here is a brief assessment of my current acceptance of JW doctrine/beliefs that may help you to better understand my point of view on certain matters discussed on this board.

    1. Blood Issue: Probably I have done the biggest "flip" on this issue. As mentioned before I was a staunch defender of the Organization's Blood Doctrine, now I believe it is PROBABLY in error and at a minimum should be a conscience issue.

    2. FDS: Always had a concern about this, now confirmed in my belief that this doctrine is in total error.

    3. 1914-Gentile Times, 607 BCE. Prior to 1997 I never gave this issue a thought or truly investigated it. Now understand that 607 date for Jerusalem's destruction is a complete fabrication. Understand the historical development of the doctrine within the org. Now believe there is nothing special about 1914 from a "theocratic" or bible impact. I allow for the belief that we may be however in the beginnings of the "last days" or end time but this not tied to anything other than the composite sign.

    4. DF'ng. Wasn't for it before, not for it now. Right maybe in principle, wrong in practice. All association should be a conscience matter of the individuals involved.

    those are the big issues, I will have more to say in another forum.

    thanks to all regarding the issue of allowing more freedom of speech and altenative (pro-JW) viewpoints on this board--at least it promotes some debate and not mere affirmation.

    I wish I personally could be more frequent to this board but my current work and personal life (new baby) does not allow. Perhaps in the future. I do think and feel extremely strongly that any real change of the org must come from within it and that a heavily toxic environment to visiting JWs will not help to accomplish that.


  • Oroborus21

    PS: by that whole background on my early life and teen years, what I meant to say and emphasize is that because I didn't have the strict JW upbringing, I am somewhat unable to fully empathize with others who may be here who obviously and perhaps justifiably feel much anger and frustration, sadness and even hatred at not being given the kind of freedom that I enjoyed.

    I can understand too that many who have come out of the org after wasted years or even due to the DFng doctrine are currently undergoing (just as I am undergoing it with my JW family) shunning are extremely hurt by the Society's actions.

    I when reviewing such posts try and separate these persons, and validate their feelings, from those that were never in the org (and there seems to be many here) and only seem to be here in order to castigate JWs. I am not saying such ones don't also have valid feeling, logical arguments or simply a point to make, I am only saying that I personally hold such ones who have never been in the org on a different level WHEN they thus spew hateful remarks (without even to my mind having a personal injury to back that.)

    not sure if that clarified anything really


  • dubla
    After my freshman year at USC (Go Trojans!)

    oh man ......i cant wait for the trojans to come into south bend this year.....its payback time!


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