Was Sin Inevitable?

by Parker 64 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Parker

  Hello, everyone. I was wondering about this question and wanted to ask: Was sin inevitable? Also, I had thought about past Watchtower articles or publications related to this topic and did some research and found this from Our Readers Ask If Adam Was Perfect, How Was It Possible for Him to Sin?

  Well, then, did God create Adam with a moral weakness, so that he lacked the ability to make sound decisions or to withstand temptation? Prior to Adam’s disobedience, Jehovah God had examined all of his earthly creation, including the first human pair, and had determined that it was “very good.” (Genesis 1:31) . . .

  Additionally, I found this also from Did God Know That Adam and Eve Would Sin?

  Regarding God’s creation, including the first humans on earth, the Genesis account says: “God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good.” (Genesis 1:31) Adam and Eve were perfectly made, ideally suited to their earthly environment. There was nothing deficient in their makeup. . .

  Therefore, these articles show that the Jehovah's Witness belief is that Adam and Eve were created perfect. They were as good as God could have created them.

  Also, interestingly, I found this from We Can Learn From the First Human Couple

  Was Eve’s sin inevitable? By no means! Put yourself in her place. The serpent’s claim completely distorted what God and Adam had said. How would you feel if a stranger charged someone you love and trust with dishonesty? Eve should have reacted differently, showing disgust and indignation, even refusing to listen. After all, who was the serpent to question God’s righteousness and her husband’s word? Out of respect for the principle of headship, Eve should have sought advice before making any decision. So should we if we are ever presented with information contrary to God-given instructions. Yet, Eve trusted the Tempter’s words, desiring to be her own judge of what was good and what was bad. The more she toyed with the idea, the more it appealed to her. What an error she made by entertaining a wrong desire, instead of dismissing it from her mind or discussing matters with her family head!​—1 Corinthians 11:3; James 1:14, 15.

  But this paragraph makes the point that I was trying to make with this thread. Because as the article said: "How would you feel if a stranger charged someone you love and trust with dishonesty? Eve should have reacted differently, showing disgust and indignation, even refusing to listen." Exactly. Because I would think that the unanimous answer to the question that the article is asking its imperfect audience would be "Yes!" Therefore, how could the article go on to say that "Eve should have reacted differently"???? And yes, Eve should have reacted differently. And yes, Eve should have have sought advice before making any decision. However, with the article saying that, it is actually destroying its own logic because both Adam and Eve were as good and as perfect as God could have made them and they both should have reacted differently.

  Also, according to Jehovah's Witness theology, the answer to my question of: "Was sin inevitable?" is yes because according to the Eden story, nothing could have been done differently. The results of a perfect human couple who were influenced by a serpent which was was being manipulated by a spirit entity would have always played out the same, even if God would have destroyed Adam and Eve and created a new human couple while allowing this spirit entity to try again.

  But please feel free to comment, but ONLY in the context of JW theology. Because I realize that Christians who are not Jehovah's Witnesses have their own twist to this where God had foreknowledge of what was going to happen and allowed it to proceed anyway for his own glory. But I do not want to get into that in this thread. And that could be a topic for another thread at another time.
• 

  Parker

  And the same thing would apply to with Satan. According to this article: Our Readers Ask . . . Did God Create the Devil?

  How, though, could a perfect spirit creature​—who had neither weaknesses from within nor wicked influences from without—​become wrongly inclined? He evidently craved worship that belonged only to God and saw the possibility of bringing humans under his rule instead of that of Jehovah. By continuing to dwell on this prospect of rulership instead of dismissing it, he allowed the idea to fester until, at last, he acted upon it. The process is described in the book of James: “Each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin.”​—James 1:14, 15; 1 Timothy 3:6.

  
  To illustrate: Imagine an accountant who sees an opportunity to manipulate records in such a way as to steal from his company for personal profit. He might quickly dismiss that wrong thought. If, instead, he dwells on this possibility, then the idea will grow in its appeal, and he is likely to carry it out. If he does, he has, in effect, made himself a thief. If he lies about his crime, he becomes a liar too. In a similar way, by cultivating wrong desires and acting on them, the angel whom God created used his free will to engage in deception and rebel against his Father, thus making himself Satan the Devil.

  But I think that the Watchtower is shooting itself in its own foot with these 'imperfect humans' illustrations because why would a perfect spirit creature even 'see' or imagine a selfish and hurtful opportunity or possibility? Because even as an imperfect human, I read or watch videos about corrupt and hurtful behavior by people just about everyday in the news. And I would say that just about everything that I read or hear about, usually has never crossed my mind as an opportunity or possibility. Therefore, why should it cross the mind of an entity that was created as good and as perfect as God could have made him? However, according to Watchtower reasoning, Satan's sin was inevitable too.
• 

  Half banana

  "Sin" and its partners "perfection and "imperfection" are religious constructs.They are key parts of the control apparatus to put worshippers under obligations.

  They only exist in the minds of believers.There is no way of measuring or quantifying sin, it is a mythical explanation for not being perfect when a perfect mythical god supposedly created humans who supposedly became imperfect.

  One of the joys of waking up from this fallacy is the realisation that we are not made imperfect from an ancestor's misdeeds and we do not wear the burdensome cloak of guilt, unless of course we deliberately harm others or break the law. Neither do we need to grovel to an invisible god to get a pardon through human sacrifice.

  Religion and its insistence on sin infantilises us putting us back to the helplessness of childhood and dependency on others. Christian religions in effect teach that we are all naughty children.

  Was it inevitable? It doesn't exist.
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  tiki

  I always had issues with the theory that dwelling on a "sin" would lead to one actually following through and doing the deed.... I have observed in my existence on planet earth that a greater number of what are construed as sinful acts are impulsive.....kind of out of the blue mistakes people make. Sociopaths may dwell on the evils they plan to commit....but that group is not representative of the average flawed human.

  At best it is indeed a conundrum....and trying to make sense out of a spirit creature disguised as a reptile playing mind games with a pure innocent newly created human and her subsequent curiosity....well....good luck with that. And then endeavoring to explain it from God's perspective??? Given the JW view of God it becomes the utmost presumption to try to explain his thought processes.
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  Mr.Finkelstein

  Ancient mythological stories were inevitable based upon humanity's inherent ignorance of the world the ancients lived in their time and era. ie. Adam and Eve
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  Sea Breeze

  Of course it was. How else could it be proven that man has free moral agency?

  When an animal steals a piece of meat from another animal, it feels no shame. It lusts according to its nature. Atheists will tell you that this is a good thing and it will establish the fittest species. Scripture says this is a fallen system.
  
  Man is different, he has two natures, not just one like animals. Scripture says that this morality is a reflection (although a dim one most of the time) of the Creator, and that man alone on earth possesses this moral agency.
  
  People who choose to live without God must deny moral law, because that implies a "lawgiver". And, of course that implies a judgment at some point. This is quite unsettling for those that don't know Jesus.

  Jesus said that a person can both embrace moral law & God at the same time by using himself as a bridge between the two seemingly incompatible parties.
  
  False religion seeks to complicate the simplicity of Christ and to nullify the relationship with him as Mediator. Others just hand waive everything away as myth.
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  truth_b_known

  What is "sin"? Both the Hebrew and Greek words for this word are an archery term meaning "To miss the mark" or specifically in Hebrew "To miss the golden center of the target." We also have to know the Biblical definition of "perfection." That definition is "brought to its end, finished; lacking nothing necessary to completeness."

  What is the mark being missed in a sin? It is to violate God's law. If Adam and Eve violated God's law, they sinned. So, perfection has not bearing on sin. Otherwise Jesus' sacrifice would be meaningless. Jesus could have sinned, but chose not to, and died a perfect man. Thus, balance was restored.

  What is interesting is that to sin is to violate a law God has given. The question asked by Plato is "Is it pious because the gods say it is or is it pious because it is pious and the gods have told us so?" In other words - Is it good because God says it is good or is it good because it is good and God has told us so?

  If it is good because it is good, God is only a messenger, and whether God still exists or not has no bearing on morality. However, if good is good because God says so then good is subjective to God's wants and desires, which means good doesn't exist.

  If you walk into a dark room and see a burning candle you have had a subjective experience. If you close you eyes or turn your back on the candle it is still there. Objective things can be experienced through subjectivity. Therefor we can see good or evil and recognize it.
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  RubaDub

  Was Sin Inevitable ...

  Imagine yourself walking around your yard naked and having a discussion with a talking snake. What would you expect?
• 

  Parker

  Thank you for your responses everyone. Also, I left out something. I forgot to mention that according to the Watchtower's understanding of the Bible scriptures that portray sin entering the universe through Satan and Adam and Eve, that the whole concept of sin entering into the universe really doesn't make sense. But if anything, a perfect angel deciding that it wanted to rebel against God and rule over the human race and humans succumbing to its deception, sounds more like a scapegoat explanation. Because for argument's sake, the way that I look at it is that if the Biblical story of creation is true, then it doesn't make sense that an eternal and perfect God's first go-around with creation would have resulted in such sin, destruction, chaos, pain, and misery. And the explanation that perfect individuals had imperfect reactions and imperfect inclinations makes no sense. Therefore, this sounds more like a made-up story which needs an explanation for why sin and imperfection exists. And FOR THAT STORY, sin is inevitable, even though sin WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN INEVITABLE if a perfect God had created perfect individuals who thought and who reacted perfectly.
• 

  Parker

  quote by Parker

  And FOR THAT STORY, sin is inevitable, even though sin WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN INEVITABLE if a perfect God had created perfect individuals who thought and who reacted perfectly.

  I just thought about how what I said in my quote sounded similar to what the Watchtower had said about how Eve's sin was not inevitalbe. Just for clarity, what I was actually saying was:

  And FOR THAT STORY, sin is inevitable, even though sin SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED if a perfect God had created perfect individuals who thought and who reacted perfectly.