Help please

by jhine 46 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • jhine
    jhine

    Hi , would someone help me please with some info about the NWT . During my study time l have been reading John 1:1-14 and Colossians 1:15-17 . Both these passages indicate that Jesus was not created as the WT asserts .

    John 1:3 " Through him ALL things were made , without him NOTHING was made that has been made "

    NIV International Version , capitals mine for emphasis .

    Would some kind person let me know if the NWT changes these verses to alter the meaning . If not how can the borg justify their teaching about Jesus .

    Thanks in advance , Jan

  • nonjwspouse
    nonjwspouse

    Please visit jwfacts.com for plenty of information about this and many other questions you might have. That site explains a lot with sources listed and full quotes to back up.

  • truth_b_known
    truth_b_known

    As you are learning, the NWT is a translation written with eisegesis.

  • JoenB75
    JoenB75

    Jhine, ofcourse the org can not justify their teaching. Jesus is Jehovah and worshipped (Hebrews 1:6 etc). What neither jw nor most anti jw sites will tell you, is that John did not merely use the Word / Logos as a title of God. In John's day the Word was known in Hellenist philosophy as a concept, the cause and reason behlnd all things. How befitting for John to identify the Lord with that. Paul uses similar thought in Colossians 1, Ephesians 1. Also in Hebrews 1. You can find the famous Greek scholar William Barclays commentary in the new testament online ☺️

  • TD
    TD

    Jan,

    If I'm understanding you correctly, I think your question presupposes that there is only one possible way a sentence can be understood.

    Language is not that precise. It's actually very, slippery.

    In another thread, for example, you pointed out that the word, "Other" is not in the Greek text at Colossians 1:15-20, which is true enough, but by the same token, neither is the word, "Things."

    All translators are inserting a word here.

    "Things" and "All things" and "Other things" are all possible ways the word, πάντα could be understood.

    I don't think there is any question that the NWT is favorable to the JW's by design. But in most instances, it is still well within the boundaries of definitions and grammar.

  • JoenB75
    JoenB75

    Well that might be true although I consider it pretty problematic that a created being should be excluded from all ☺️. But it gets worse. Both JWs and "firebreathing" evangelicals utterly deny Colossians 1:20. So the evangelicals are being a wee bit hypocritical ☺️

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Jhine

    Hi

    I believe you are looking for how the NWT translates these verses. Is that right? Or are you looking for how they explain them?

  • eyeuse2badub
    eyeuse2badub

    Of course the bible writings are ambiguous as are all works of myth and fantasy!

    "Let the reader use discernment" so sayth the bible.

    just saying!

  • iwasblind
    iwasblind

    Hey Jan

    if you use Biblehub.com, there is access to a Greek interlinear and Strongs concordance where every word in the bible has a dictionary meaning.

    You can see where they have made the changes, also look at col 1:20 where they have changed the meaning all together.

    When I was waking I found so so many places where they "tweak" the text and change the wording to suit their doctrine.

    Hope that helps.

  • jhine
    jhine

    πάντα . l looked this up in Bible Hub Greek interlinear and every possible meaning includes all , every , total ,the lot etc . No doubt that this word is totally inclusive , NOTHING that was made was made without him . Adding the word thing is not changing the meaning . All that was made is the same as every thing that was made .

    It's adding other that changes it .

    Vanderhoven l was asking about both . Without the word other the meaning ( and intent of the writer ) seems clear .

    A lot is said about putting verses into context . Well Paul starts this passage by saying the Christ is the image of the invisible God . He goes on to say " For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him "

    How do JWs square all this with their teaching that Jesus is a created angel ?

    l am curious about the statement that fire breathing evangelicals utterly deny Col 1:20 . Why do you say this JoenB57 ?

    As l am neither a JW or a firebreathing evangelical , just a mild mannered Anglican , l hope that hypocrisy is not one of the things that l can be accused of , with regard to this at least .

    I am asking because l would like to be prepared when chatting to JWs and asking about this .

    Jan

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