Cofty
I always read your topics.
But your attempt to separate absolute and objective is pointless.
How can something be objective without some absolute as reference?
Morality Without Deity
by cofty 210 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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cofty
Why evolution would bring so much waste in a particular unreal idea? - John_Mann
John please try to stick to the topic of the OP.
The evolutionary roots of belief in gods has been thoroughly covered in the forum many times.
This thread is about the failure of the argument for god from morality.
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Saename
Edit: I'll just shut up. There's no reason to continue to argue about evolution.
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cofty
How can something be objective without some absolute as reference? - John_Mann
There is no such thing as a perfect or absolute standard of physical health. Despite this we constantly make objective statements about physical well-being.
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John_Mann
Despite this we constantly make objective statements about physical well-being.
Based on absolute data as weight, blood pressure, body temperature, etc.
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cofty
Yes. Objective facts leading to objective judgements with no absolute standard of perfection involved.
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John_Mann
Sorry but there's an absolute (very narrow) range in values of health data.
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cofty
I'm not wasting time with petty semantic bickering.
Lots of substantial points in the OP if you are sincere about having a conversation on this topic.
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John_Mann
Yes, I want a sincere conversation.
So I'm arguing about your first premise: objectiveness is different from absoluteness.
You'd put this premise as base of your OP.
But you failed to show how is possible something be objective without absolute references.
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menrov
I have not read all the comments yet. But I do see that if one leaves a rather controlling religious group because of the false claims or even lies and bad things happening in that group, that person runs the risk to lose all faith in a god. And if that happens, also the believe in the bible is gone. Now, where to go for your moral compass? Eventually, the person either regains some faith again in a god or accepts his own views and conscience to be his moral compass. Whichever the final result, there will be a period in which that person lives in a sort of a vacuum. For many, a very uncomforting situation.
People will say: you see, that is what happens if you leave us (religious organisation) or when you lose faith in god. And meaning that the person is worse off than before. For a moment, that can be true, but it is a phase.
There are many human groups that do not have access to a Christian bible and use other sources to define their moral compass. Are these societies worse off than those that are more based on bible principles? I believe that history shows that it does not really make a big difference. Is a Chinese person a worse person than a person from a western (Christian) based country?
What makes life difficult for humans is being ruled by people who love power and are willing to use everything to gain that power. People being ruled by such people will adjust their views on what is right or wrong to some extend.
Anyway, just my view.