Great post Cofty. I couldn't agree with you more. And for those who haven't read the "moral landscape" should have it at the top of their reading list for 2017. Such a well laid out book and argument.
Morality Without Deity
by cofty 210 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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anointed1
What Simon said is true. Humans painted a God which suits their purpose. After ordering the ‘annihilation of all the inhabitants’ of the city God is shown as saying: “All the silver and gold, as well as bronze and iron items, belong to the Lord. They must go into the Lord’s treasury.” (Joshua 6:19)
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The Rebel
I have enjoyed reading your latest O.Ps Cofty.
When I left the Watchtower I wanted to get at the heart of my preoccupation with God. I considered if I had been born Chinese, I would have a different skin, different beliefs. If I were born a Muslim I may as well have put my current beliefs in the trash bin. So since I no longer want to waste my time choosing the correct religion, I decided to seek something else, freedom to think, my own personality my own views on right and wrong.
Now I am inclined to believe often what I think is right according to my moral interpretation is often only that, my moral interpretation of right and wrong. I am therefore now more open to other people's ideas, of right and wrong, and personally I found many who attach themselves to a religious organisation do not have this freedom to think, nor their own personality on views of right and wrong.
To clarify I look back on my time as a witness, and I see myself cast in a movie, my role wasn't that of the great star, but my little role was written by the organisation, and I was not allowed to improvise my part, the directors of the movie did their job very well.
I have now given up acting, or at least I am currently blacklisted from participating in any religious movies.
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fukitol
As you alluded to, the Euthyphro Dilemma is pretty much all one needs to know to refute this typical Christian apologetic.
If morality is independent of God and exists outside of Him, then it means God is not all powerful and that He is subject to something greater than himself, ie, objective morality. No Christian can accept this proposition and still believe God is omnipotent.
However, if the source of all morality is from God and is not something outside and independent of God then objective morality does not exist, since it is only a reflection of Gods divine commands. It would mean morality is arbitrary and that might is right after all, as Satan claimed.
It's an intractable dilemma.
Some Christians have said the dilemma is false, claiming there is a third option. But it's not very convincing.
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John_Mann
fukitol3 hours agoHowever, if the source of all morality is from God and is not something outside and independent of God then objective morality does not exist, since it is only a reflection of Gods divine commands. It would mean morality is arbitrary and that might is right after all, as Satan claimed.
It's an intractable dilemma
What's the problem to a Christian if morality comes from directly from God's nature (as opposed from His will or intellect as you put as "divine command"). I don't see any dilemma in this.
To understand Christianity you must understand at least the concepts of nature, intellect and will in Christianity.
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stuckinarut2
Here is the perfect answer:
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never a jw
Without having read any book or opinion on the issue, I have to say that morality is a subjective concept that when you strip it of all its subjectivity what you have left is guidelines for collaboration among humans to improve our survival rate. Human evolution at its best... or worst. Time will tell
Morality from God???
We humans created God... and He created morality... Therefore we, humans, are the source of morality. Problem solved. Fear not my child.
EDIT
Simon, you stole my thunder, and I am glad:
we create him in our image rather than the other way around. Which is probably why he's usually such a jerk.
Truer words had never been spoken before
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John_Mann
Cofty
Why humans evolved to perceive evil at all?
We are the only specie to perceive evil, justice, mortality, etc.
BTW no other species have consciousness at all...
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cofty
How are you defining evil?
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LoveUniHateExams
BTW no other species have consciousness at all - are you sure?
Please explain how you know this.