Cutback prediction

by slimboyfat 204 Replies latest members private

  • sparky1
    sparky1

    "I don't believe for a minute that the org's supposed 'financial' difficulties are much more than part of the propaganda devised to smoke screen their way into yet another configuration." - OrphanCrow

    Absolutely, positively, unequivocally SPOT ON!

    However, as I have said before, such clear thinking will never seem reasonable to those who expect the collapse of Jehovah's Witnesses happening 'within 10-20 years' or "liable to collapse any minute" or "if Armageddon doesn't come within a decade they're bust".


  • Nicholaus Kopernicus
    Nicholaus Kopernicus

    Diogenesister:

    Yes they have the old (black 1984) edition in Tagalog. Prior to the release of this however, they released the NWT Greek scriptures in Tagalog bound with a volume of the Hebrew scriptures translated into Tagalog by the Philippine Bible Society. To the best of my knowledge, it is quite rare for the WTBTS to approach a Bible Society for help. It was really decent of the Philippine Bible Society to help them out.

  • redvip2000
    redvip2000

    Just listened to it. It really is stomach turning.

    "tightpants" Morris constantly uses a term as the center piece of his talk -- "rightly disposed". In other words, he is saying that the Org is looking for those who are already disposed to accept the teachings. He actually says that Jehovah touches someones heart and makes them accept the "troof". What immense hogwash. So if Jellohoba makes someone accept the "troof", why doesn't he just make everybody accept it? For all intents and purposes, Jellohoba is actually responsible for those who accept and those who are destroyed.

    No more yearbook? Well who didn't see this coming? We all knew it. It's pretty obvious that the Org doesn't want to report any more numbers. What a great way to sweep all of the embarrassing totals, both increasing and decreasing, from the Jdrones.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    OrphanCrow:
    .....
    This is just the 1920s all over again. Hell, the WTS/ISBA at that time lost over 75% of its membership during its transformation into the new and improved Jehovah's witnesses AKA Joe's Army.
    I don't believe for a minute that the org's supposed financial "difficulties" are much more than part of the propaganda devised to smoke screen their way into yet another configuration.
    I think that one of the org's strategies is to cut dead weight. Selling off Kingdom Halls gets rid of those without the $$$ to travel elsewhere. Switching to cart witnessing gets rid of those who don't have the $$$ for insurance etc. And etc etc...
    The org wants to lose membership in the Western countries. They want to shake lose all those who are only warming seats. I don't think the org is having a financial crisis - they are having a financial re-structuring.

    Yeah, I (nor all the rest of us) know enough to totally dismiss the idea that the whole thing is a smoke screen to shake off a huge amount of dead weight and emerge as a leaner, still rich new kind of cult.

    I believe Scientology is going through that phase. They seem to have less than 25,000 American members and many calculate that they actually have that amount totally worldwide. Yet they also have over a billion dollars worth of property, mostly in Florida and around Hollywood, California.

    So if that's the plan, I still hope it comes about. I mean- I will feel pretty bad if my loved ones remain among their tiny membership, but I would bet that just the hardest hardcore believers would remain.

    And I only slightly believe that is the possible plan. These guys just are not smart enough for that.
    I am still leaning toward them desperately trying anything to save the cult and the membership and it just isn't working out. I am still leaning toward the upper echelon finding a point where they need to take the money and run.

  • Xanthippe
    Xanthippe

    Sorry if this has been mentioned but I've only just listened to it. So Morris says they are getting three watchtowers and three awakes per year to use in FS and then after two years they are going to assess the situation and if they decide they don't need anymore magazine articles they will keep reprinting the same ones.

    The same articles over and over? Wow they've run out of money, ideas and are giving up any pretence of doing the preaching work.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat
    I think the ultimate fate of the cult rests on how cynical the leadership is - if they truly believe that armageddon is coming at any moment and that the israelite war god will swoop in and save them at the last moment, then it seems entirely possible that they could find themselves properly bankrupt and see banks awarded their HQ to settle the debts. If they've come to terms with the fact that it's a scam and make strategic sacrifices to ensure their survival they may be able to keep themselves afloat with a significantly reduced membership.

    Yes I think that's a key part of it. They are true believers and they genuinely do expect Armageddon to arrive soon. This has led to some pretty poor decision making. And now, facing the stark reality of not enough funds, plus scandals and other crises, they still expect Jehovah to make a way out for them. Or bring on Armageddon at just the right moment, before they go under.

    Franz and Knorr were true believers too, but they had intelligence and nous to go with it. Franz had a creative mind and Knorr had a talent for making efficiencies. The current GB have the same solid belief in the religion but none of the creativity and none of the strategy. They've made a real dog's dinner of it.

    Those who think all their troubles are pretend, or part of some conspiracy - there's another thread on conspiracy theories at the moment you may want to check out.

    I also agree with the poster who said that pulling missionaries out of growing countries is a big clue they are in trouble. Plus dropping the Gilead missionary program. Plus all the closures.

  • stan livedeath
    stan livedeath

    so--if jehovah doesnt intervene--and save the watchtower, it can only mean

    either

    the watchtower isnt the one true religion

    or

    jehovah doesnt exist.

  • Xanthippe
    Xanthippe

    It begs the question that's been asked before, what on earth is Warwick for now with all these cutbacks on writing and printing? What is it now but a big showy retirement home for VIPs.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    I am skeptical of the idea they will publish the full report on the website. Probably a dumbed down highlights version. Certainly no partakers figure. Within a couple of years probably little or no figures at all.

  • OneEyedJoe
    OneEyedJoe
    I am skeptical of the idea they will publish the full report on the website. Probably a dumbed down highlights version. Certainly no partakers figure. Within a couple of years probably little or no figures at all.

    I agree, Though they might be clever about it. Here's what I'd do if I were them: For 2017's numbers, publish everything just as they used to in the yearbook. Depending on the numbers, maybe edit a few things, e.g. remove the partakers count, remove special pioneer/missionary counts - anything that's embarrassing and unlikely to be heavily missed. Then, at some point (either sometime during 2018 - maybe when traffic to the stats page drops to a minimum, or when 2018's stats are published and 2017's data moves to a new page as 'previous years' stats') they remove the detailed stats and replace it with only highlights and cherry-picked narratives (i.e. a doubling of publishers in some obscure country that only had 20 JWs to begin with).

    If they play it that way, almost no JWs will notice - we've all seen it before with every bit of 'new light' or with the changes to the revelation book - those that see the old stats are missing will just convince themselves that it's been that way for a while. The cognitive dissonance will kick in - since it's been that way for a while, they were clearly accepting of the change when it happened because they'd forgotten it, so clearly it's no big deal. If anyone else mentions it to them, they'll kick into gear and say "oh yeah it's been that way for a while." and any doubter will either be convinced or learn to keep their mouths shut.

    They've already shown a clear willingness to use the new paradigm of using the online library in lieu of bound volumes to quietly update old information, erase failings, and make quiet retractions (the example of the blatant misquote of an evolutionary biologist a year or two ago springs to mind - upon the biologist becoming aware of the misquote, he wrote an open letter demanding a retraction and apology and the online version of the article, though not the PDF as I recall, was quietly edited to remove the quotation and replace it with some generic statement). They've used their new ability to edit the past in a strikingly Orwellian manner already to avoid embarrassment after the fact - planning ahead of time to avoid embarrassment would only be one step further. This might be something they'd see as a bridge too far as they imagine themselves to be utterly scrupulous, but if the numbers are sufficiently embarrassing, they might be fearful enough of the r/f JWs finding out that they may fall to an 'ends justifies the means' mindset.

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