Cutback prediction

by slimboyfat 204 Replies latest members private

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  sparky1

  "The association showed a 24,000,000.00 (pound sterling) surplus on the Statement of Financial Activities at 31 August 2016..............Net assets at the end of the year stood at approximately 115,000,000.00 (pound sterling). When it is considered that the vast majority of this is made up of tangible assets (105,000,000.00 pound sterling) this demonstrates the Association is continuing to utilize its resources effectively."

  "The major element of capital additions during the year was the part completed project to build new headquarters in Chelmsford. Cash reserves have been built up to a suitable level in order to finance this acquisition. (bold mine)."

  Report of the Trustees for the Year Ended 31st August 2016 page 3
  

  
  
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  sparky1

  I agree with you 100% Shepherdless on the new arrangement of each Kingdom Hall paying rent in perpetuity. That has been my contention all along. The Watchtower society is not broke and the increased income stream is coming from the new rental/lease arrangement. Thank you.
  
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  _Morpheus

  Woe woe woe... you wouldnt read anything into it? The slim lead gloom and doom chorous is BASED on the “big picture” org failing, NOT individual congregations. Those who are aruguing against that view have said over and over that the perpetual mortgage (a congregation tithe) was generating money and their cutbacks/retooling likely offset losses. If those numbers from the uk are legit (and i have no reason not to believe they are) they are THRIVING. Far from being in a bind the sons of bitchs are building cash reserves. This may not translate world wide but id bet my ass it applies to developed countries (europe and the USA particularly).

  So im curious... in the face of full on evidance that directly refutes the gloom refrain, how many threads do we get discussing this...? Will it even be acknowledged?
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  Driving Force

  When we are talking about donations, it could be that oversees branches donate to the UK branch, which would mean an increase in donations in the UK. We do not really know how the Borg shuffles around its money.
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  shepherdless

  Actually Sparky, we are not on the same page, on this.

  Yes they do have that £115 million set aside for Chelmsford. (Think I may have been the first to point that out on this site.) I would also agree that on the face of the accounts there is no reason to suspect that any collapse is imminent.

  If they have been doing what I think they have been doing, then I don’t think it is sustainable (although still not bad enough to lead to imminent collapse).

  I would like to comment further, but I am going to have to do something else now.
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  shepherdless

  Driving force, Aust is the only overseas branch that has contributed a significant amount recently to the Britain branch. And it wasn’t termed a donation; it was an interest free long term unsecured loan. (I would like one of those!)
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  redvip2000

  donations are what the congregations pass up, not donations by individuals. It seems to me that the increase in recent times was partly the “new arrangements” where each congregation is paying a rent in perpetuity, and handing over of any amount in the congregation’s account over a certain level, and sales of Kingdom Halls.

  ?? It's all coming from individuals. Where do you think the money to pay for rent is coming from? That is also donations for all intents and purposes, except it has a specific destiny, instead of some vague label on a contribution box.
• 

  Crazyguy

  We can argue until the cows come home about how much money they may or may not have. What I find interesting is after they dumped people paying for their literature they didn't go crazy begging for money. Now I recent years the begging for money is obvious, so something is up.

  I think their not bringing in the money they used to bring in when you count for inflation. Their investments may have tanked and of course the elephant in the room is pending child abuse cases. Maybe all the begging is just to build up a nice fat fund to defend against child abuse cases and if they loose to afford to pay out the fines.

  But let's also not forget another elephant in the room, people. People are leaving the Borg in records numbers and as the population ages the numbers of the members is clearly going down. I have said this before and I'll say it again, they don't have 8 million member and never have. Also of the members they do have a huge number do not donate whether it's because they are children or are in a poor country. Even the members in places like the USA most don't donate. When I was in I hardly ever did and I know others that have been in 60 years and have donated less then a 100 bucks in all that time.

  I think they got a wake up call right before Sam Herd came out and anouced cuts. I think the wake up call was "hey by the way the numbers we publish are bunk" .
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  OrphanCrow

  Throwing my hat in again...

  The premise for the OP, if I am correct, is that there is 'evidence' that the org is having financial difficulty. I don't see it that way. Some of the things that are being interpreted as "difficulty" could simply be evidence of the org changing and/or refining their funding model, based on not only how religions/charities/nonprofits are allowed to make and retain money and spend money but also on how foundations and granting entities define their funding parameters.

  I see the push for donations as possibly evidence of a non-profit organization entering into the competitive world of grant funding. Most funding agencies require a non-profit that is applying for funding to show that a certain percentage of their income comes from their membership. This amount has to be raised through membership fees/donations and/or fund raising activities. In other words, it is the donation source that is sometimes used as a measurement of a non-profit's financial health.

  A drive for membership donations could very well be evidence of a non-profit or charitable organization generating fund$ through the grant writing system. Pushing for donations could be the very opposite of a financial difficulty and instead be evidence of the org competing for large amounts of funds from outside agencies.
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  cofty

  OC - What sort of outside agencies would give large grants to a religion that do no actual charity work?