How Will They End 1914 Teaching? (page 27)

Fisherman

This is in no way requires an equivalence of desolation to 70 years.

According to you. But the Bible says 70.

MeanMrMustard

Utter nonsense. The text is quite ambiguous according to scholars and commentators for a number of translations into English are possible based on the Hebrew text. The immediate context proves that the subject in view is not Babylon or the nations but Judah.

Pure delusion. I invite everyone to go to biblegateway.com, type in Jerimah 25:11. At the bottom there is a link to view the scripture in every English translation they have. All of them... ALL.. render the verse this way. I'm sure you can find a "version" out there that renders it differently, but it's not a translation, it's some version that inserts preconceived ideas into the text.

And this is the trouble JWs find themselves in here. The prophecy originated in Jerimiah, and Jerimiah was painfully clear. The grammar used is so clear that just about every translator that's ever given this verse a shot has rendered it as two separate thoughts (in one way or another). And then for good measure Jerimiah starts to list off the nations to which the servitude would apply (v 18). And then goes into what the servitude means in chapter 28 (and it's not strictly desolation and exile).

This is simply your opinion for I would argue that the 70 years of servitude and desolation apply both to Judah and the nations.

Yes. Yes you would.

Grammar won't help you because the text as it reads is ambiguous so you have read this verse in context and the subject in focus is the Land -Judah.

Flawed logic. It's very similar to the "during every birthday in the Bible something bad happened, therefore birthdays are bad" type of logic.

Servitude or 'serving Babylon under Neb's reign took different two different forms , first , one of vassalage under a present monarch and an Exile whereupon the Monarch was deposed and forced into Exile to Babylon.

Right. And because it's 70 years of servitude (even applying to other nations), the Exile fits quite well with the official historical data. But not 607.

MeanMrMustard

According to you. But the Bible says 70.

The Bible says 70 years of servitude of nations (plural). You are attempting to make an equivalence between "70 years" and "desolation". It's nowhere in the Bible, especially Jeremiah 25:11.

Fisherman

You are attempting to make an equivalence between "70 years" and "desolation"

That’s how we see it. The Bible text integrates the 70 years with the desolation, 70 CE as a striking reminder pointed to Jerusalem. Have fun with your belief. I don’t buy yours.

Jeffro

Fisherman:

I don’t think the Bible can be translated using strict rules of grammar alone. I think that the translator has a belief to begin with and the grammar conforms to that belief when interpreting and translating to another language. His belief is the rule or the guide and not the grammar.

Tell me you prefer doctrinal bias over accuracy without telling me you prefer doctrinal bias over accuracy. 😂

scholar

MeanMrMustard

Pure delusion. I invite everyone to go to biblegateway.com, type in Jerimah 25:11. At the bottom there is a link to view the scripture in every English translation they have. All of them... ALL.. render the verse this way. I'm sure you can find a "version" out there that renders it differently, but it's not a translation, it's some version that inserts preconceived ideas into the text.

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Jer.25:11 can be translated from Hebrew into Greek in three different ways but it is not the translation of this verse but its interpretation wherein lies the problem. The LXX translation and other omits the phrase 'the king of Babylon'.

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And this is the trouble JWs find themselves in here. The prophecy originated in Jerimiah, and Jerimiah was painfully clear. The grammar used is so clear that just about every translator that's ever given this verse a shot has rendered it as two separate thoughts (in one way or another). And then for good measure Jerimiah starts to list off the nations to which the servitude would apply (v 18). And then goes into what the servitude means in chapter 28 (and it's not strictly desolation and exile).

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Grammar won't help you but it is the context alone that provides the correct interpretation of this verse. The target or focus of this Prophecy right from vs. 2 is 'the people of Judah and all of the inhabitants of Jerusaelem'.and then in vs. 9 it states' this land and against its inhabitants and against all these surrounding nations' altogether will be brought into servitude to Babylon for 70 whilst Judah is desolate as the backdrop for such servitude.

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Yes. Yes you would.

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Based on the context and skilful exegesis

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Flawed logic. It's very similar to the "during every birthday in the Bible something bad happened, therefore birthdays are bad" type of logic.

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Logic or plain common sense shows the need to read carefully paying attention to the context.

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Right. And because it's 70 years of servitude (even applying to other nations), the Exile fits quite well with the official historical data. But not 607.

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Agreed. Now that we have established the fact of the Exile it is then easy to see how that began only with the Fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE. Easy is it not?

scholar JW

scholar

MeanMrMustard

The Bible says 70 years of servitude of nations (plural). You are attempting to make an equivalence between "70 years" and "desolation". It's nowhere in the Bible, especially Jeremiah 25:11.

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Jer.25:11 most definitely associates the 70 years with the servitude of the nations combined with the servitude of Judah as a desolated land.

scholarJW

scholar

Jeffro

Tell me you prefer doctrinal bias over accuracy without telling me you prefer doctrinal bias over accuracy. 😂

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The said scholar prefers both as norms of exegesis and translation- doctrinal or theological bias and accuracy!!!

scholar JW

TD

I don't usually facepalm, but sometimes words fail me....

wozza

I'd like to know how the people living back then would have viewed words like "desolation" of the land ,what it meant to them in real terms. Did it mean total destruction and nobody living there or something like damaged by warring armies and no structure left to organize daily life like there used to be .

This is where I wonder if we today can say for certain that the scriptures are totally literal and accurate or not .

Scholar I did not respond a few days ago been away from the computer.

How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

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