Divisions among ex jw activists

by Truthexplorer 27 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • konceptual99
    konceptual99

    As far as I can see the problems really arose when the concept of a structured organisation arose (AAWA). The idea was good but trying to organise a disparate set of individuals into something with structure and hierarchy has allowed agendas to be set, alliances to be formed. conflict to appear and egos to be bruised.

    As a non-activist, I respect pretty much all the people who spend time, money and mental energy producing information, videos, content and so on. Different things appeal to different people or is relevant at different times in someone's awakening. Rather than sniping at each other just live and and let live. Anything else is counter productive and smacks of childishness.

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice
    I've met Marc and Cora and eaten with them. They are both very nice people. Lloyd produces good videos. There really is no Cedars vs: Marc and Cora in my mind. I'm fine with both.
  • defender of truth
    defender of truth

    I agree with punk.

    Just appreciate/don't appreciate the articles or videos he does, and leave it at that. That's my view.

    One look at this page can tell you that he has serious emotional issues.. I will leave it there, as I am not going to waste time critiquing or mocking such...again, words fail me.

    http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/my-response-to-the-haters-and-why-i-cant-always-shake-it-off

    Basically, just take anything to do with internet-based flame wars between anyone with a pinch of salt. (ex-Jehovah's witnesses or otherwise, it makes no difference).

    You'll likely never get the 100% facts of the matter from either side, so it is a waste of the one short and precious life that we have, to even attempt to do so.

    Mind your own business.

    Ignore any haters.

    Otherwise, you too might end up like Cedars...

    (My thought for the day ;) )

  • notsurewheretogo
    notsurewheretogo

    "
    defender of truth5 minutes ago

    I agree with punk.
    Just appreciate/don't appreciate the articles or videos he does, and leave it at that. That's my view.
    One look at this page can tell you that he has serious emotional issues.. I will leave it there, as I am not going to waste time critiquing or mocking such...again, words fail me.
    http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/my-response-to-the-haters-and-why-i-cant-always-shake-it-off
    Basically, just take anything to do with internet-based flame wars between anyone with a pinch of salt. (ex-Jehovah's witnesses or otherwise, it makes no difference).
    You'll likely never get the 100% facts of the matter from either side, so it is a waste of the one short and precious life that we have, to even attempt to do so.
    Mind your own business.
    Ignore any haters.
    Otherwise, you too might end up like Cedars...
    (My thought for the day :wink: )"

    Fair enough...I agree...like/dislike the content not the presenter...we don't know personally the presenter...

    BUT it is never as simple as that...

    When more than a few people post comments on his site, Redddit or here with the motive of helping his videos to reach a wider audience or to improve them somehow and get shot down by Cedars consistently because he cannot take any criticism and that he is always right then HE makes it personal. HE is creating divides, HE is creating those against him because of his nature and that becomes part of whether you like his content.

    I made a kind suggestion on Reddit that to improve his excellent Child Abuse video to reach a wider and more professional audience where in that he applies basic 101 Advertising in that presentation of the material simply makes a huge difference ie comb your hair and trim your beard.

    I'm scruffy looking...but I'm not putting myself in the public's view with activism but HE is...yet when you try and help his goal by suggesting things he views it as a personal attack and has a go back.

    I've had repeated examples of this with Cedars and other people have too...what this does is, even though you like the content you know based on past experience what kind of man he is and that sours your view of his content and therefore creates "camps".

    Some of us are mature enough to keep the "person" and "content" separate but as I say it is not easy or simple for us all....

    I still maintain Cedars site was at its optimum, for those who are still in and are nearing to coming out, when he was in covert mode before his DA.

    Since then his content has changed dramatically to the point where a JW will say "bitterly mentally diseased apostate" and walk away from his site.

    I get he is not producing content for that audience and he seems to want to target the audience who are already out and like to have it affirmed that the WT are not "the truth" but with that, adding the atheist point of view, is creating himself problems.

    With a young family and depression that is never a good mix...

    Cedars has been unfairly attacked by a few individuals but a lot of his "haters" are coming from how the man is himself...something he himself can control...

    My two cents...I love his videos...do not like his attitude sometimes...keep them separate and all is well.

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    I have been off youtube for a while and cannot recall how to log in to my old account where I used to rant. This is me now...(if anyone is interested...it matters not)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbQqZNU-RbI



  • freemindfade
    freemindfade

    When I first gave myself the freedom to explore exjw critics on the internet I had no idea where to look. So just googled some things. Most the you tube videos I watched were more aimed at the bible in general and not jw's.

    I found Barbara Anderson's site and story. That was a good one! Also cedars site and his personal story made a lot of sense to me. Honestly most of his videos were a little long winded and slow for me to watch regularly and Marc and Cora came across as still having the ick of religion on them, they still have the cult look in their eyes and voice and I found the videos uninteresting. The information on jwfacts has to be the most sound and direct, for someone waking up it feels very logical and secular. Not packed with emotion, opinion or activism.

    It takes all types to get to speak to us and if they aren't unified that's a good sign of freedom. People need to learn how to separate emotion from logic. I know as well as the rest of you about Lloyd aka cedars ego and personality. However things like his video on abuse was one of the most comprehensive summaries I've seen. Why do I care if he's an ass or not? He's not my buddy. Like it or not he will continue to help people wake up like the others do.

    I will say this for any current or future activists. People waking up may not have much time to watch or read info and peoples attention spans in our time are getting shorter and shorter. Its not always easy to say everything you want in a direct short manner, but you should try. It may have a better chance of getting through to someone dabbling in "apostacy".

  • defender of truth
    defender of truth

    @notsurewheretogo

    (I am only taking the time to reply to this because you quoted my post. I think I still need to learn myself, when simply not to comment ;) )

    When more than a few people post comments on his site, Redddit or here, with the motive of helping his videos to reach a wider audience or to improve them somehow and get shot down by Cedars consistently because he cannot take any criticism...

    So learn from that, and move on. Don't post comments on his site. Don't give him any feedback. Watch the vid, click 'like' maybe, then move on.

    That way, everybody's happy. I think.. ;)

    I made a kind suggestion on Reddit that to improve his excellent Child Abuse video to reach a wider and more professional audience...

    So don't make kind suggestions. Or any suggestions. Just leave him to it.

    ...when you try and help his goal by suggesting things he views it as a personal attack and has a go back.

    So don't try and help him.

    ...Since then his content has changed dramatically to the point where a JW will say "bitterly mentally diseased apostate" and walk away from his site.

    Then do what those hypothetical JW's would do, walk away.

    If people stop responding to all that bitterness and insanity (in certain articles), meaning:

    not commenting on his site, or making videos to respond to his videos... Both sides of the problem will be resolved.

    Again, if you don't like it...

    Just walk away.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I don't keep up with the latest spewing out of jw broadcasting, so I don't tend to watch any of the videos. I have liked Cedars' videos and very much liked Marc and Cora's videos for the personal touch on issues.

    I might tend toward avoiding Cedars and siding with anyone against him because of past issues of outing on facebook, but really don't care to be involved in any organized efforts.

    I would have to agree with those that say to appreciate whichever videos help ya and ignore the rest. I get why people felt a need to speak out about issues in the ex-jw community but I hope they all just move on to their own path. A great example in that would be Barb Anderson who moved on to her own agenda and just stays away from divisive activity.

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