Atheism = self defeating.

by towerwatchman 315 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • towerwatchman
    towerwatchman

    To Cofty

    You are decades out of date. Nobody thinks life began in a prebiotic soup. You have never read a book on evolution in your life have you? DNA provides incontrovertible proof that all of life evolved from a common ancestor over millions of years. PS - If you must copy-paste have the honesty to provide a link to the source.

    I always read both sides of the discussion. One common thread I notice in pro evolution books. It is more fantasy than science.

    If you paid close attention, the probability that your one cell common ancestor just popped out of slime is 1 in 10^40K. There are 10^65 atoms in our galaxy. Hint = impossibility.

    So tell me where how did the first protein that the first ‘common ancestor’ evolve?

    Or better yet, tell me how someone can have such faith in a worldview that should start with ‘Once upon a time.” My worldview is based on science, logic and reason. Yours is based on faith. I don’t have enough faith to be an atheist.

    PS I gave you the author. Look it up.

  • towerwatchman
    towerwatchman

    To cofty

    Natural disasters proves that an omnipotent and loving god does not exist.

    HOW?????

  • towerwatchman
    towerwatchman

    To Cofty

    You avoid every difficult question. You have listened to hours of Wm L Craig videos and formed your arguments in a bubble. Every word you write is either WLC or S. Meyer. You bounce all over the place using copy-paste as if you have written it yourself and never provide links. You ignore every argument of substance. You never converse or attempt to understand anything others are saying.

    Typical position of an armature. Yes I use Craig, and Myers. So what I credited them with the material. As to properly citing, nonsense, this is a forum to discuss, not a term paper. I have answered every post be it with my material or if with others [cited]. The funny part is not rebuttal with substance. The problem is not me 'bouncing' all over the place' but you inability to keep up. Pick a topic, I am still waiting for you. If you want I could dumb it down for you.

  • towerwatchman
    towerwatchman

    To Finklstien

    Really , the only belief I have and hold to is the adherence to intellectual honesty and faith that its better for mankind to continue investigating facts based on physical evidence to use toward the ending benefit of humanity.

    As an atheist you obviously espouse evolution.

    So let's test the facts.

    Is a fact that living things arise from non living things? = Never observed.

    Is a fact that complex systems evolve bit by bit? = No evidence anywhere of the evolution of such systems.

    Is it a fact that evolutionist have the missing link? = No the missing links are still missing.

    Is it a fact that mutations support evolution? = No. Evolution (things becoming more ordered) and mutations (things becoming more disordered) are processes going in opposite directions.

    Is it a fact that probability supports evolution? No. Evolutionists such as Sir Fred Hoyle concede this when they say "The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way (time and chance) is comparable with the chance that 'a tornado sweeping through a junk-yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein.

    Is it a fact,according to natural selection, that the fittest survive? No. Natural selection is based on circular reasoning: the fittest are those who survive, and those who survive are deemed fittest.

    All requires a tremendous amount of faith. More faith than I can ever have. Again I wish I had the faith of an Atheist.

    Your logic and reason is based upon hearsay alone derived from ancient mythological expressions.

    Here is the funny part. I have not posted anything derived from ancient mythological expressions but science and math.

    I do accept and acknowledge that the Jesus god was devised to appeal and in benefit to humanity through empathy, understanding and compassion toward the human condition.

    Why bring up Jesus, I am not arguing for Jesus but Intelligent Design.

  • towerwatchman
    towerwatchman

    To Finklestien

    You cant prove something of which you can not firstly define. Proving a negative is a logical fallacy in itself. Faith, by definition, relies on a belief that does not rest on logic or evidence. Faith depends on irrational thought and produces intransigence.

    Agree on all points.

    There is an interesting thing about life, it is that it does not start with reason and ends with faith. A child’s mind is very limited and does not inform the child for the reason of her trust, but as she runs into her father’s arms she does so because of an unspoken trust that those arms will hold her. A child begins with faith that is then proven by reason. Over time that trust will be tested, and it is the character of the parent that will establish that trust to be wise. One starts life believing in Santa, The Tooth Fairy, Zeus, maybe the Flying Spaghetti Monster but overtime reason proves them wrong. My faith has substance, it is rational, based on the confirmed knowledge that Jesus has proven who He claims to be, God incarnate. Some accept by faith, I by reason. My faith is not orphaned by reason.

    What I ask is that anyone who investigates does so honestly, researching both sides and follow the truth to where it leads them. There were many long nights that I spent searching for the truth, where ever it lead me. One thing I noticed over and over again. The God of the Bible is true, based on logic and reason.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Why bring up Jesus, I am not arguing for Jesus but Intelligent Design.

    Ok then what is your answer for the question I posed ...... ?

    Its a known and accepted that asteroids are moving about the universe and some over time have actually hit earth causing catastrophic damage to all living things on this planet, ie. the end of dinosaurs

    If another large asteroid was on route to collide with earth and it was known that all life on earth was to be destroyed once again, would it still make logical sense to proclaim that a intelligent designer / deity created the universe ?

  • towerwatchman
    towerwatchman

    To Finklestien.

    Your too full of yourself Watchtower people leave out of a lack of engaging honest discussion and this happens quite often when debating theism or personal beliefs.

    I have to ask, “why is are so many posters here suffering from fecal encephalopathy?” Just for the record I am an ex JW. If you are going to insult at least get it right.

    Think about this for a minute....... its known and accepted that asteroids are moving about the universe and some over time have hit earth causing catastrophic damage to all living things on this planet, ie. the end of dinosaurs.
    If another large asteroid was on route to collide with earth and it was known that all life on earth was to be destroyed once again, would it still make logical sense to proclaim that a intelligent designer / deity created the universe ?

    It would not make logical sense if and only when the asteroid collides and kills all life.

  • Simon
    Simon

    What a fruitcake.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    What Happened in Brief

    According to abundant geological evidence, an asteroid roughly 10 km (6 miles) across hit Earth about 65 million years ago. This impact made a huge explosion and a crater about 180 km (roughly 110 miles) across. Debris from the explosion was thrown into the atmosphere, severely altering the climate, and leading to the extinction of roughly 3/4 of species that existed at that time, including the dinosaurs. Many asteroids of this type are now known; their orbits pass through the inner solar system and cross Earth's orbit. Some of these could potentially hit Earth in the future. Most, but not all are smaller than the one that hit us 65 million years ago.


    How Was the Impact Event Discovered?

    In the late 1970s, a team of geochemists headed by Luis Alvarez and his son Walter Alvarez, both with connections to the University of California at Berkeley, was studying chemical changes in soil layers corresponding to breaks in the fossil record. In the soil layer that separates the Mesozoic Era from the Cenozoic Era, dating 65 My ago, they found an excess of the element iridium, which is common in meteorites. Meteorites are believed to be fragments of asteroids. Therefore, the Alvarez team theorized that an asteroid had hit Earth at this time, and that the debris ejected from the explosion were spread in the soil layer.

    For about ten years, this theory was extremely controversial. However, compelling evidence has accumulated to support the theory.

    Evidence for the Impact Event

    There are now many lines of evidence to prove that a relatively large impact happened 65 My ago.

    1. The iridium excess in the 65 My-old soil layer has been confirmed at many points around the world.
    2. The same soil layer contains grains of quartz that were deformed by high shock pressures, as would occur in a giant explosion. (The deformation is a microscopic structure called "twinning," in the crystals).
    3. The same soil layer contains enough soot to correspond to burnding down all of the forests of the world. This suggests that massive fires were touched off at the time of impact.
    4. The same soil layer, especially around the Gulf of Mexico, contains massive deposits of tumbled boulders, as would be generated in a large tsunami, or "tidal wave." The geographic distribution of tsunami deposits suggest the impact was in the Caribbean area.
    5. After a decade of searching, scientists in 1990 identified the crater associated with this material. It is no longer visible on the surface of the Earth, but is buried under sediments. It straddles the coast of Yucatan. It is revealed by mapping the strength of the gravity field over that area, and by drilling; it has been dated to 65 My old.
    6. Astronomers have charted numerous asteroids that cross Earth's orbit. From studies of orbit statistics, it is estimated that asteroids of 10 km size can hit the earth roughly every 100 My or so -- which fits with the idea that we actually did get hit 65 My ago by an object this size. (Smaller hits are much more common).

    What Happened During the Impact?

    Asteroids hit Earth typically at high speeds of 16 to 32 km/sec (10-20 miles/sec). During the impact, the kinetic energy in the asteroid (or energy of motion) is converted to explosive energy, blowing debris of dust, soil, and rocks not only into the atmosphere, but out into space, where it fell back into the top of the atmosphere. Early calculations in the 1980s (using in part ideas worked out by Carl Sagan and his colleagues) showed that so much dust entered the high atmosphere that the Earth was shrouded in a dust layer that blocked sunlight for several weeks or months. This would have killed some plants, disrupting the food chain.

    Later calculations (especially by Jay Melosh at the University of Arizona) indicated that for the first few hours after the impact, rocky debris would have fallen back into the high atmosphere, creating a storm of glowing fireballs in the sky. The radiant energy from these would have heated the surface to boiling temperatures for some minutes, and would have been enough to kill many animals and plants on the surface. However, in regions of heavy rainstorms or snowstorms, these organisms would have survived the first few hours. Sea creatures would have been buffered from effects in the first hours, but plankton on the surface might have died out over the weeks of darkness, decreasing the food supply for small fish, which affected the bigger fish, and so on.

    These examples show how hard it is to predict the exact effects of the impact. Many species who lived on the surface (such as dinosaurs) might have been decimated in hour or weeks. Species who lived in burrows, or hibernated (like some mammals) might have survived. This may explain why mammals replaced giant reptiles after the impact. Tiny primitive mammals may have emerged from their dens, to find that their giant reptile competitors were mostly gone.

  • Berengaria
    Berengaria

    Simon, you have hit the nail squarely on the head.

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