Please explain!

by Freedom rocks 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Freedom rocks
    Freedom rocks

    Hi please can someone explain this in laymans terms for me coz I be ever got it as a jw and still don't. It doesn't make sense to me

    Bible chronology indicates that God’s Kingdom was established in heaven in 1914. This is shown by a prophecy recorded in chapter 4 of the Bible book of Daniel.

    Overview of the prophecy. God caused King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to have a prophetic dream about an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump was prevented from regrowing for a period of “seven times,” after which the tree would grow again.—Daniel 4:1, 10-16.

    The prophecy’s initial fulfillment. The great tree represented King Nebuchadnezzar himself. (Daniel 4:20-22) He was figuratively ‘chopped down’ when he temporarily lost his sanity and kingship for a period of seven years. (Daniel 4:25) When God restored his sanity, Nebuchadnezzar regained his throne and acknowledged God’s rulership.—Daniel 4:34-36.

    Evidence that the prophecy has a greater fulfillment. The whole purpose of the prophecy was that “people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that he gives it to whomever he wants, and he sets up over it even the lowliest of men.” (Daniel 4:17) Was proud Nebuchadnezzar the one to whom God ultimately wanted to give such rulership? No, for God had earlier given him another prophetic dream showing that neither he nor any other political ruler would fill this role. Instead, God would himself “set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.”—Daniel 2:31-44.

    Previously, God had set up a kingdom to represent his rulership on earth: the ancient nation of Israel. God allowed that kingdom to be made “a ruin” because its rulers had become unfaithful, but he foretold that he would give kingship to “the one who has the legal right.” (Ezekiel 21:25-27) The Bible identifies Jesus Christ as the one legally authorized to receive this everlasting kingdom. (Luke 1:30-33) Unlike Nebuchadnezzar, Jesus is “lowly in heart,” just as it was prophesied.—Matthew 11:29.

    What does the tree of Daniel chapter 4represent? In the Bible, trees sometimes represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) In the greater fulfillment of Daniel chapter 4, the immense tree symbolizes God’s rulership.

    What does the tree’s being chopped down mean? Just as the chopping down of the tree represented an interruption in Nebuchadnezzar’s kingship, it also represented an interruption in God’s rulership on earth. This happened when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem, where the kings of Israel sat on “Jehovah’s throne” as representatives of God himself.—1 Chronicles 29:23.

    What do the “seven times” represent? The “seven times” represent the period during which God allowed the nations to rule over the earth without interference from any kingdom that he had set up. The “seven times” began in October 607 B.C.E., when, according to Bible chronology, Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians. *2 Kings 25:1, 8-10.

    How long are the “seven times”? They could not be merely seven years as in Nebuchadnezzar’s case. Jesus indicated the answer when he said that “Jerusalem [a symbol of God’s rulership] will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24) “The appointed times of the nations,” the period during which God allowed his rulership to be “trampled on by the nations,” are the same as the “seven times” of Daniel chapter 4. This means that the “seven times” were still under way even when Jesus was on earth.

    The Bible provides the way to determine the length of those prophetic “seven times.” It says that three and a half “times” equal 1,260 days, so “seven times” equal twice that number, or 2,520 days. (Revelation 12:6, 14) Applying the prophetic rule “a day for a year,” the 2,520 days represent 2,520 years. Therefore, the “seven times,” or 2,520 years, would end in October 1914.—Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6.

  • Room 215
    Room 215

    Excellent exposition of the standard JW mantra re 1914. which I bet not one JW in a hundred has mastered. More erudite contributors to this forum than I have demolished this concept, exposing several glaring fallacies in its string of disjointed elements.

  • notsurewheretogo

    The whole thing falls down with one simple fact proved beyond doubt...

    The destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon was NOT in 607 BCE.

    The very fact the WT used to teach it was 606 BCE until they realized that there was no zero year in between 1 BCE and 1 CE shows it is made up because they changed the start date of their prophecy, something set in stone in the past and documented by thousands of sources compared to changing the end date of their prophecy...something invisible.

    We can all go into the crux of it but there is zero evidence anywhere that 607 BCE was the year Jerusalem was destroyed.

  • days of future passed
    days of future passed

    Since Jerusalem didn't fall in 607ce as per secular historians, those calculations don't mean anything. In fact, when I was looking for proof one way or the other about the WT, I found that the Revelation book and the Daniel's prophesy book, contradicted one another on what 3 1/2 times really meant. It's hilarious, you should read it yourself.

  • scratchme1010
    Please explain!

    Dis the bible.

  • smiddy3

    The whole purpose of the prophecy was that “people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that he gives it to whomever he wants, and he sets up over it even the lowliest of men.”

    ???... Didn`t Satan take Jesus up into the highest mountain and offer him all the kingdoms of the earth if he did one act of worship to him ?

    And Jesus didn`t contradict him and say he didn`t have any authority over all those kingdoms did he.

    The “seven times” represent the period during which God allowed the nations to rule over the earth without interference from any kingdom that he had set up.

    So in other words Jehovah God gave Satan the right to rule over mankind then but wasn`t he already doing that ? since Eden ?

    And then the quote from Jesus that the whole world is lying in the power of the Wicked one ? Satan ?

    In Job Satan comes before the throne of Jehovah { obviously he is not shunned } and God asked him where he has been and he reply`s from walking about in the earth etc etc.

    So Satan has been on the earth causing havoc for 6000 years before he is cast out of heaven and confined to the earth and has had control over all the nations since Adam & Eve sinned .

    No wonder I don`t believe in the Bible or a God anymore.

    ps. And after the 1000 years of JC reign God in all his wisdom is going to set Satan free to work more havoc on humanity as if they haven`t already suffered enough ?

    Such a loving God.

  • Phizzy

    Daniel is a work of the 2nd Century B.C.E , so virtually none of it is prophetic, it pretends to be from some 4 centuries earlier so that the writer can make barbed comments about Antiochus 1V Epiphanes.

    Even ignoring the glaring fact that 587/6 is when King Neb did the business to Jerusalem, not 607 BCE, a year when nothing much happened, there is no way you can extrapolate 2520 years from Chapter 4, the fulfillment is at the end of Chapter 4, 7 years the King went mad. Interestingly the writer of Daniel gets the wrong King here.

    All the Bible writers wrote for their own time, and with an Agenda, they were not writing to you and me, or anyone in a future time.

  • Bugbear

    Freedom Rocks

    I am sorry to say that your basic preconditions, that the bible in some way, could possibly be right and trustworthy, is absolutely a fallacy. None of the texts in The Bible could ever be regarded as a truth. The Bible only reflects old ancient sagas, written down by a number “writers” who are told to write down what some totally ignorant priest remembered, and what their fathers and mothers have told them. Then it is copied, rewritten, translated and copied, and copied and copied……by totally ignorant boys that just barely have learned to copy letter, by letter. Most of the ideas in the Bible have been proven false, not only the year b.c . 607. But it also contains frightening stories of bears eating boys, of God drowning a humanit, of a God allowing to kill every other nations that is not Jewish. It contains stories of how to sacrifice Goats, bulls, dowse to please God, and order the Israelites to take girls women and children, to slaves. ……..It is terrible if any one use the Bible as the basic of his believes, in fact most of the wars in the western story was inspired be the so called Gods word.

  • carla

    I can't even get past this, "Bible chronology indicates that God’s Kingdom was established in heaven in 1914". "Bible chronology" says no such thing.

  • OnTheWayOut
    Hi please can someone explain this in laymans terms for me ....

    Not really. You get it pretty good. It doesn't really make sense when you break it down. Here's the closest I ever came to "laymans terms" :

    A dream in the book of Daniel is supposed to have a second fulfillment indicating the time period when Jesus starts his rule on the earth, allegedly the year 1914. That is based on their claims of when events started before that dream took place and when they must come to an end by applying an unrelated rule from some other unrelated part of the Bible.

    Really, it was worked backwards to come up with the long complicated current doctrine. But they already had chosen 1914. Originally, Charles Taze Russell believed that Christ had returned invisibly in 1874, and that he had been ruling from the heavens since that date. He predicted that a period known as the "Gentile Times" would end in 1914 (which was "one generation" of 40 years past 1874), and that Christ would take power of Earth's affairs at that time. He interpreted the outbreak of World War I as the beginning of Armageddon. He thought this would mark both a gradual deterioration of civilized society, and a climactic multi-national attack on a restored Israel accompanied by worldwide anarchy.

    You can wiki search for "The Great Disappointment" and "Charles Taze Russell" to see the beginnings of these ideas. But the current doctrine was developed to support 1914 after the end of the world did not happen. They pulled silly Bible rules out of whatever they needed to arrive at 1914.

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